the Strategy of Alliance

[NTJedi]

Baalz said:
Well I think its hard to argue that forming a secret alliance before the game starts is much better than cheating, which I think is what you're advocating. This is really no different than playing two nations yourself - deliberately starting with a big advantage and uneven playing field. Being a hacker and knowing you can do something doesn't make it ethical, no more than being able to hack a .2h file makes it OK to do.

I also think it's pretty smarmy to form an alliance "for the rest of the game" when the game rules everyone agreed to don't recognize team victory conditions. No reason you can't have plenty of alliance victory games (there's an allegiance game running right now I'm in), but if the game host specifies victory conditions its pretty rude to just decide you're gonna go ahead and make sure nobody wins by playing for an unrecognized victory. Host a game with whatever rules you want, but don't hijack other's games who are trying to do their own thing.

Its not about "how the game should be played" its about showing some consideration for the way others want to play their games.

I agree with Baalz... alliances should not be made before a game starts unless ALL players are aware and agree. Doing otherwise provides unfair advantages and will be considered cheating by many players.

Alliances for an entire game should also not exist unless ALL players agree this can exist. Doing otherwise provides unfair advantages and will be considered cheating by many players.

Avoid unethical temptations which might damage your character for any gaming community.

[Gandalf Parker]

I never said it should be secret. I dont think I have ever done a secret alliance nor would I ever advocate one. But then I have been called "incurably paladin" (both virtually and in real life). Mentioning a pantheon would tend to say that I was talking about open public agreement.

Personally as far as "should agree this can exist" seems backward to me. They CAN exist (victory conditions excluding of course) therefor I would treat them as possible unless its stated that they CANNOT exist in the game. Not sure how that would be enforced but I personally would always comply with such a game setting. I would recommend that people hosting a game might want to keep this in mind since I personally tend to consider any agreement (even NAPs) to be game long unless specifically broken.

I only posted this because I see posts about how a nation (in this case a modded nation) seems to serve no purpose because it would never stand up against certain other nations. Ive seen it about some of the vanilla nations in the game also. That is a limiting view of the worth of nations and "how the game is played" IMHO

Gandalf Parker

[Sombre]

Sylvania in that mod game would make about as much sense as MA Ulm on a water based map with all the UW nations and only one land province. I exaggerate, but I ask you this - have you actually looked at Sylvania and compared them with the other nations in that game? Because if you haven't, advocating them isn't very logical.

[Baalz]

Ah, ok, I misunderstood you and it obviously touched a sore spot on me. I will say I disagree that unless they're specifically barred they're OK, I think the bar you have to pass is "reasonable expectation". I think that if nothing is said when the victory conditions are specified it's implied that each player is playing for a single nation win, playing only one nation, etc. etc.

I think the possibilities of real alliances are very interesting, and I hope to see more team games like the Allegiance MP game. I've had a lot of fun working with my prearranged ally coming up with two builds that complement each other and an overall strategy we're working toward (splitting up research goals, conquest priorities, etc.). I don't really want to go into too much detail about our secret plans in an ongoing game, but it certainly is a different game played that way!

I also think some of the more interesting diplomatic dynamics are between long term allies that know they'll eventually have to fight each other...if they last that long!