Are Clams worth empowering for?

Nikolai · #1 August 31st, 2007, 05:04 PM

> A Skratti has a chance for a Nature random. Then all you need is a water bracelet to start clamming.

Water Bracelet is level 6. Better to make Jarl forge Water 3 robe - costs more, but you can start forging.

Micah · #2 August 31st, 2007, 05:25 PM

There's also the fact that pearls are so much more useful than water gems (except for a modest supply for the cheap water items...quickness items, FR items, and frost brands...only 5-10 gems for all or almost all of them). The only big water expenditure I'd really consider are the Queens. So if you've got a significant water income Clamming makes a lot of sense.

Sandman · #3 August 31st, 2007, 05:59 PM

It's probably more efficient just to alchemise.

Xietor · #4 August 31st, 2007, 06:06 PM

I would not mind seeing clams removed from the game. Micromanaging is bad.

Meglobob · #5 August 31st, 2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Xietor said:
I would not mind seeing clams removed from the game. Micromanaging is bad.

Lets not remove anything from the game.

Dominions is about variety.

No one is forcing anybody to clam, its entirely optional.

I believe clams etc were already nerfed from Dom2 to Dom3, by increasing the gem cost. I think clams, fetishes and blood stones are okay as they are.

This is from someone who as never seriously clammed in any game I have played.

Xietor · #6 August 31st, 2007, 06:21 PM

Maybe so. But I get tired of seeing "clammers" post on the big game thread for the game to end at turn 70 etc because they cannot handle the micromanagement that goes along with clamming late game in a big game.

Micah · #7 August 31st, 2007, 06:26 PM

They're really NOT optional in big games, is the thing. I had over 100 gems/turn coming in from items in a game as shinuyama by turn 75. Given how important astral magic is in the late-game I can't see how a non-clamming nation would be able to keep up, since all they'd have is a pile of water gems. IIRC I was getting around 40-50 gems of each type that far into the game (with maybe 100 provinces or so) so the clams represented a large amount of extra gems every turn.

Edit: I don't see how clamming is particularly mm-intensive though...every 5-10 turns if your water income is growing you build a few items or summon up a clammer. Other than that just group them up push F and then click misc item/clam, then right click a researcher somewhere and plop a clam on him. Hit "Pool gems" each turn. Done...maybe a minute of work/turn. I'd save a massively larger amount of time on my turns if orders weren't reset on commanders by removing items that don't impact the order, or if there was a way to retarget a ritual without having to go back through the different menus.

Xietor · #8 August 31st, 2007, 06:34 PM

hah. you made my point for me.

Saying micromanagement is not optional if you want to keep up with the Joneses. To win you must do it. But if it is a pain in the arse to do, and people whine they do not want games to go past a certain turn because it is micromanagement hell, then why not remove the items from the game and let players PLAY the game and have fun.

Clam production is a race to the bottom. You win, but it is not FUN to play the game. And the purpose of the game is? To have fun.

The Plaintiff rests his case, Your Honor.

quantum_mechani · #9 September 1st, 2007, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Meglobob said:

I believe clams etc were already nerfed from Dom2 to Dom3, by increasing the gem cost.

They have infact already been nerfed so far they are hardly recognizable, originally they took 2w and 10 gems, now it's 20 gems and 3w1n. The only times I have ever forge clams in dom3 is in the few cases where I have mage with the combo, and need astral so badly that I would otherwise end up alchimizing for it.

It's probably possible to eventually get a decent clam income going, but any game that is not perpetuality style is quite unlikely to still be in doubt past turn 100. And further, if I was going to be worried about a hoarding item, the blood stone is far deadlier as things stand.

So, I think the current nerf was probably a good thing, but people are paraniod to still be seriously afaid of clamming in 99% of cases, considering even at the crazy dom2 settings it was hardly unbeatable.

Xietor · #10 September 1st, 2007, 04:19 PM

By turn 60 in 1 game I am in, the clam production already is over 100 per turn.

Blood stones also need addressed.

The Alpaca game, is on turn 100 and the outcome is still in doubt, playing on Edi's fixed cradle of dominions map. It would be easy to have a wish a turn income by turn 100.

Gem producing items completely undermine the value of global spells designed to boost gem income.