Riots?

[BudgetMessiah]

Fyron said:
Every troop counts the same for happiness purposes, whether it is a low tech small troop or an end-game large troop. This is an issue with how the stock game is set up, with bigger almost always being better. For regular (combat) usage, it doesn't make any sense to build small troops when you have larger available. For policing purposes, it doesn't make any sense to build big troops. The data setup has some diametrically opposed goals.

Actually, if I am reading you correctly, this is exactly how I would have set things up. Perhaps even giving larger troops a penalty for policing populations, but the fact that smaller troops are more cost-effective in this role, it more-or-less accomplishes the same thing. Tanks suck for civil purposes (relative to troops) so why would a simulation present this differently (assuming it's a good simulation)? Tanks don't quell insurgents in Iraq, and they weren't really used during the unrest in New Orleans, and these are just two examples of why a simulation should present smaller troops as being preferred in civil situations.

Players shouldn't be able to just mass up one type of all-purpose troop to accomplish all goals equally well, if not for the reason I've already described, and just for game mechanics reasons. Different tools should be required by players to accomplish different goals, that's a given. I'm glad that the game encourages this in some way; it makes sense to me.

[Fyron]

Actually the (stock) game does not encourage diversity in troop designs... the only possible consideration is for police troops. Any other design for troops favors anti-diversity.

[BudgetMessiah]

All the more reason to keep that aspect of the game included.

[Fyron]

What aspect? The poorly designed troop system that has no real purpose for the various hulls beyond bigger is better? A system with a real differentiation between infantry and tanks would still inherently make infantry better for policing...

[BudgetMessiah]

Yes, I totally agree. That would be good. The ground combat system is underdeveloped, to be sure. It has been for at least a few iterations of the series (having only really seen the game since 3 and on).

But, given that there are a limited number of troop types, it's better to give some purpose to the smaller troop types later in the game, and one example of such a purpose that currently exists is policing worlds.

However, removing this purpose and modding the game so that large troops are better in addition to the other advantages they currently enjoy, which is clearly what you were describing as a deisrable change, would be undesirable for the reasons I have already given. Now, if you'd like to rework ground units and combat entirely, that sounds good to me, but it wasn't what we were talking about previously.

[Fyron]

Wtf? I never posted a desire to make large troops better at policing...

Note that it is impossible to modify exactly how troops affect happiness; all we can do is change the parameter for how much a troop affects happiness in happiness.txt. There is no way to change it to check for troop size or something other than just the number of troops.

[BudgetMessiah]

That's not how I took your post here:

This is an issue with how the stock game is set up, with bigger almost always being better. For regular (combat) usage, it doesn't make any sense to build small troops when you have larger available. For policing purposes, it doesn't make any sense to build big troops. The data setup has some diametrically opposed goals.

It seemed, by extension, you were saying that it would only be logical that bigger be better in this area so as to be consistent with the rest of the game. If you say that isn't so, then I must have been mistaken, and that isn't the case...my bad!

To which I will hasten to add that it would be wonderful if the ground combat were more...varied? That much it's clear (now at least, heh) we agree on. Maybe someday, after I get the fun of playing the actual game out of my system, I'll take a crack at it.

But seeing as how I'm just starting with 5...don't hold your breath.