OT: good fantasy books

[Mr_Matt]

Me and my brother just finished writing our first fantasy novel a few months ago. Been shopping it around to publishers but haven't gotten anything yet. It's not typical fantasy however, because we're not usually fantasy writers.

Out of curiosity what do you look for in a fantasy? I find it impossible to find a good original fantasy these days. Everything is Orcs, Elves and wizards(BORING). Dominions is like the only fantasy game without those and I absolutely praise it because of that. Although, it has dwarves... grr

MrMatt

[jutetrea]

Song of Ice and Fire were great for low magic books, lots of combat, intrigue and a good "world". Valyrian steel, minor dragons, and nebulous evil bits.

Personally I like the dragonlance model, group of friends turn hero, get powerful, save world. Unfortunately its been done to death so its the rare version that sticks out.

Discworld model is nice, build a "world" and just tell stories in it. If the concept is good enough, the stories can be hit or miss but still positive re: forgotten realms/sanctuary.

My take on fantasy is that by being unreal it opens up a lot of options. It can combine elements of all the major genres without being pigeonholed: Love, sex, intrigue, murder, mystery, horror, military, government, coming of age, politics, "save the world", one hero/multiple hero, etc. Whatever those 7 great themes that find themselves repeated through history are, one fantasy book can encompass them all.

"Magic" can be construed in whatever way floats your boat. High magic, no problem. Low magic, you bet. Forgotten magic, ancient technology, magic vs technology, magic and technology, even stories lacking magic but referring to old magic are feasible.

Most fantasy books are just kludges of other plotlines, with fantastical characters or plot devices. A good portion of them could be easily set in the real world, they'd just be boring.

[jutetrea]

In regards to the Black Company, I'm a big fan of military fantasy. Erikson's are good, Martin has some good bits although I think the intrigue and politics are the main focus, John Ringo has a kind of post-apocalyptic series that is great, and Chris Bunch has a nice trilogy.

[djo]

Mr_Matt said:
Out of curiosity what do you look for in a fantasy? I find it impossible to find a good original fantasy these days. Everything is Orcs, Elves and wizards(BORING). Dominions is like the only fantasy game without those and I absolutely praise it because of that. Although, it has dwarves... grr

Writing is tough (I've tried). Good luck with that.

What do I look for? Tough to answer, because it's tough to generalize about writing. No sooner do you swear off adolescent coming-of-age fantasies with magic and swords than Gene Wolfe writes The Wizard Knight and you have to take it all back and admit there's something left in the subgenre.

So I'll answer twice but maybe it's the same answer, twice. First, it shouldn't be derivative. It should be its own thing. Erikson's massive Malazan series isn't like anything that came before it, not really. Brust writes about elves, but they ain't Tokein's, or D&D's, or anyone else's. And when you pick up China Mieville, you probably haven't seen anything like it, ever. So, for fantasy, originality is key. (I mean, look at Patricia McKillip. Every darn book, she uses wizards, elves, dragons, forests, castles, and somehow she turns each one into a work of art, because she puts them together like no one else. Plus, her prose is absolutely beautiful.)

The other way to say that answer is to paraphrase a quote from Wolfe as related by Brust (I can't find the reference): the key to writing is to show the reader something cool, over and over. Skip the parts that aren't cool.

OK, and a third, less philosophical answer: as I get older, I find that characterization matters more and more. Doesn't have to be "realistic", just richely detailed, interesting, and believable within the story.

[PashaDawg]

Did you write a book, djo?

[BigandScary]

Ok, everyone here seems to be going over the same stuff, so let me add something new.
I would suggest, with most of my heart and a lease on my soul, the work of David Gemmel. Seriously, it is magical.

A relatively new auther that has grabbed me is Jim Butcher. His Dresdan Files stuff is good, and i really have enjoyed his new series, The Alera Codex. The first two are a little off, the second fixing the first one's mistakes but loseing the first ones sucesses, but the third brings everything good about the other two into a brilliant novel.

L.E. Moddessitt Jr. is a good writer, but each book is a 50/50 chance of genius or boredom. I really liked "THe Magic Engineer", but everyone is different.

Micheal Stackpole is hard to describe because his stuff starts out good, but it tends to get sidetracked.

Cook has been mentioned but I would like to concur. The Black Company is fantastic and his new books (Instrumentalities of the Night) are pretty good.

I would also like to express my opinions on Robert Jordan and Martin. One major point of a good writer is the ability to kill a developed character. Jordan and Martin are the two extremes in this. Jordan can't let them die and Martin kills them off like they're nothing. Something in between is the sweet spot, but both authers are still good, they just annoy me so.

[djo]

PashaDawg said:
Did you write a book, djo?

I've started once or twice but never got beyond a handful of chapters. I have written short stories, novelettes, and novellas. Only one was good enough to submit, but it was rejected by the few magazines I sent it to.

I am only somewhat better at writing fiction than I am at playing Dominions.

[HoneyBadger]

Sad to say, I'm going to be reading a lot lately, my hard drive died, so all I have is my work computer, and I can't play Dominions on that

Has anyone read the series of books the movie Night Watch is based on? I guess the originals are in Russian (as is the movie). I'm going to be checking them out.

[jutetrea]

I read "Night Watch", not impressed. Clunky writing, shaky premise. Good portion of that may be due to translation, but meh.