Most powerful nation

[Chris_Byler]

DrPraetorious said:Niefelheim is also my pick for overall strongest nation - if you started with equal-sized empires at turn 30 this would not be the case, but that's not how the game works.

It is possible to start with more than one province - wouldn't this tend to tone down the "monster expander because it easily massacres indies with 0 losses" nations, as well as reduce the number of tedious (especially in MP where they aren't even fast) early turns where not much happens?

Personally, I'd like an option to give every nation X free research points (where the game creator can choose X on a slider) on the first turn, in addition to the option to start with multiple provinces; in combination these would not only tone down the explosive-expanders, but also significantly reduce the effectiveness of some cheesy rush tactics.

[Morkilus]

I've played on such "accelerated start" games, Chris. They are quick and pretty fun. We accelerated the research by giving everyone a dozen sages in their capitol.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...&Number=504610

[CUnknown]

DrPraetorious, about the weak nations, I know this has been argued before, and I can't defend Maverni, but I do really like Ulm. MA especially.. although I've tried early age Ulm as well and they seem to be pretty decent. They lack some of the strengths of MA Ulm but make up for it with stealth and some better magic diversity.

I've never played LA Ulm, but as a blood hunting nation I can't imagine they could be that bad.

Without getting into specifics (which have been covered before), I can say that when I play MA Ulm, I get this giddy feeling of power that I don't feel with other races. Probably it is a product of the fact that I've played MA Ulm far more than any other race, and I'm unfamiliar with how to really max out other races.

(edit: while I'll admit, that some races you don't even have to know how to max out, such as Nefelheim, and you can still whoop some serious butt)

[Hadrian_II]

CUnknown said:
Without getting into specifics (which have been covered before), I can say that when I play MA Ulm, I get this giddy feeling of power that I don't feel with other races.

This sound almost like playing singleplayer, but in multiplayer the slow armies of ulm tend to be blasted by fireballs and killed before they can reach the enemy. (or by lightning). Later on the lack of magic diversity and strong mages becomes a huge handicap.

[CUnknown]

Slow units (especially strat move-wise) and poor magic diversity are certainly weaknesses. Balanced nations should have weaknesses.

However, Ulm's forge ability is unparalleled. It's very similar to having the Forge of the Ancients global active from turn 1, assuming your pretender can forge the necessary magic boosters (i.e. all of them).

[Sandman]

For my money, the most powerful EA nation is Niefelhiem. Those giants are brutal, and they've got 5/8 magic paths as well.

Lanka I'm not so sure about. I fought against them in the Blood Bath MP game as EA Ulm, and defeatedly them quite handily. My Steel Warriors proved more than capable of holding the line against the Palankashas.

[Micah]

Using Palankashas against Steel Warriors seems like a pretty horrible idea though. Their protection value isn't really meant to take the beating dished out by a strong enemy with a 2-hander, and they're too expensive to use in a phyrric battle. The longbow apes with a screen of the Bandar warriors backed with wind guide (they have godawful base precision) would be a much better choice for dealing with Steel Warriors, at least from the looks of it. The Asaras also look like a better match, since their initial javelin volleys would do extensive damage, and they'd get to lob both of them before melee with their crazy 20-square range (beats prot by 11 points vs a unit with no shield. Ouch.) They'd have trouble against lots of other units (especially Ulm's archers), but again...monkey screen of arrow catchers. And arrow fend later.

I haven't played Lanka though, so this is just on paper, I could be mistaken. Just seems like you benefited from really good unit matchups in your example.

[Tuidjy]

Hmm... Once upon the time, in the dark days of Dominions II, someone
claimed that "Ulm isn't all that bad". I challenged him to three games
using a one on one rush map chosen to give Ulm an advantage and tore him
up with the race he thought had the least chance... no blesses or tramplers.

Now, who was that...