The MA Ulm issue.

[DrPraetorious]

I propose in the next team game, we put EA Ulm on the same team as EA Niefelheim, and see who's laughing now .

[Xietor]

someone who thinks ma ulm is "not so bad" sign up to play them in the Evermore game.

[Valandil]

Note that there is another variable too. Even the most pathetic race, if played agianst, say, me, would win easily.

[Cor2]

Hey i played MA Ulm in Perpetuality, and i managed to be the second eliminated. Not the first!
A real victory.

[Folket]

Velusion, that is a strange argument. You should look on how many extra items it gives.

[Baalz]

Yeah Vel, the thing is it's not so much how many gems it saves, its the utility of it. Things that cost 5 gems cost 2 gems under the forge for most nations (usually not worth a hammer to bring it down to 1 for low end items). One way to look at it is that Ulm only saves two gems (cost of 3 down to 1) - no big deal. The other way to look at it is Ulm saves 50%, you'll be able to crank out *twice* as many items. On 10 gem items (a lot of mainline SC gear) assuming you do use hammers the price for most nations is 3, for Ulm it's 2. A saving of 1 gem isn't huge, but it does translate into 50% more equipment. The strength of Ulm's forge bonus is not that they save a couple more gems on rings of wizardry, it's in mass producing mainline equipment. Plus, the forge amplifies their forge bonus in another way - it gives their smith's a wider reach of items to forge. Chainmail of displacement, starshine skullcaps, gate cleavers, winged boots, lucky coins, robes of shadows, and crystal coins can now be mass produced with no boosters, and with a couple boosters and a few bootstrapping empowerments there's not much you can't hit.

[Xietor]

Yeah but it is so easy to take that equipment away from Ulm.

That is the added bonus of starting near Ulm. Easy capital and you likely get some free hammers.

[Velusion]

Baalz said:
Yeah Vel, the thing is it's not so much how many gems it saves, its the utility of it. Things that cost 5 gems cost 2 gems under the forge for most nations (usually not worth a hammer to bring it down to 1 for low end items). One way to look at it is that Ulm only saves two gems (cost of 3 down to 1) - no big deal. The other way to look at it is Ulm saves 50%, you'll be able to crank out *twice* as many items. On 10 gem items (a lot of mainline SC gear) assuming you do use hammers the price for most nations is 3, for Ulm it's 2. A saving of 1 gem isn't huge, but it does translate into 50% more equipment. The strength of Ulm's forge bonus is not that they save a couple more gems on rings of wizardry, it's in mass producing mainline equipment. Plus, the forge amplifies their forge bonus in another way - it gives their smith's a wider reach of items to forge. Chainmail of displacement, starshine skullcaps, gate cleavers, winged boots, lucky coins, robes of shadows, and crystal coins can now be mass produced with no boosters, and with a couple boosters and a few bootstrapping empowerments there's not much you can't hit.

I wasn't arguing that Forge wasn't awesome... I don't see why it's any more helpful to Ulm than any other Nation.

[Velusion]

Folket said:
Velusion, that is a strange argument. You should look on how many extra items it gives.

Ok... it will give more gems to a non forge nation than a forge nation (like Ulm).