Dark Knight

[thejeff]

The problem with house rules is: can they change during a game?

I don't believe either the Bogus exploit or the MoD were explicitly banned at the start of most of either llamabeast's or Velusion's games. Now both have said they are.
Is it fair to change the house rules part way through the game? Is it fair not to ban a newly discovered problem?

[Velusion]

thejeff said:
The problem with house rules is: can they change during a game?

I don't believe either the Bogus exploit or the MoD were explicitly banned at the start of most of either llamabeast's or Velusion's games. Now both have said they are.
Is it fair to change the house rules part way through the game? Is it fair not to ban a newly discovered problem?

Per my rules (not allowed):
• Exploit known bugs on Edi’s bug list (see main forum sticky) or obvious bugs that aren't on Edi's list.

KO's announcement that he recommends it not be used in MP play without everyone's permission is enough for me to label it an "obvious bug".

[Xietor]

It is my opinion that it was always improper to use them. shrug. I think this discussion just confirmed the general consensus.

As I mentioned previously the issue was raised in the middle of Alpaca. Many very experienced players in that game, and everyone said you could not copy the orders of the dark knight over to other commanders. Not 1 player argued that it was proper.

[Ironhawk]

Xietor, I'm unclear how you can "confirm general consensus" out of a hotly debated thread with veteran players taking clear stands with good points on both sides of a line.

[Xietor]

Ironhawk, your opinion is obviously as valued as any other player. But I think more people, numerically, have agreed that it is an exploit. Add to that the 10 players in the Alpaca game. Then add to that the developer who made the game-who designed and balanced it.

While the issue was not laid out before Alpaca began, when the issue arose, the player properly brought the issue up and it was decided 10-0 that the order could not be copied to other commanders.

I only see 3-4 people saying they think "anything goes."

So when I say general consensus, I mean the majority of people that posted on the thread, with KO's opinion being decisive in my mind.

[Ironhawk]

Well, I'm too lazy to go back and count exactly how many are for and how many against. But I take the length and continued debate on the thread to mean that the issue is still contentious. As for KO's opinion being the end-all of the debate I totally disagree. The fact of his intent on the Bogus problem is almost insignificant when you compare it to the analogous problem of archer decoying. That was intended to be removed and yet people still use it commonly without anyone crying foul.

As to the question of changing house rules while a game is playing: I think you definitely need to be able to do so. But thejeff's point stands that it is unfair to change the rules out from underneath a player in mid-game. IMO, the only reasonable solution to changing house rules is to just vote it out in the thread and have the game host break ties.

[WonderLlama]

thejeff said:
The problem with house rules is: can they change during a game?

I don't believe either the Bogus exploit or the MoD were explicitly banned at the start of most of either llamabeast's or Velusion's games. Now both have said they are.
Is it fair to change the house rules part way through the game? Is it fair not to ban a newly discovered problem?

As I am playing Caelum one of those games (Mongoose), I'm betting I'd be the one to benefit most from the MoD exploit. But I wholly support it being banned.

I'd suggest that the only time it becomes a problem to ban something mid game is if someone has already spent a good deal of resources under the assumption it was legal. Which is not the case about 12 turns into a game, as is about when this came up in the Mongoose game. If someone has spent a lot of resources that become wasted because of a closed exploit, I'd suggest it be up to them to demonstrate that. If they can, than leave the exploit open until next game.

<edited because I realised the point was less specific than I thought.>

[Kristoffer O]

I don't want to be cited as a rule on how to play.

I might think it is rude to play the game in a way other players dissapprove of. Since players will alwys dissaprove of something it might be good to discuss house rules before a game starts. If house rules are changed along the line, I the players least offended by either course to yield. They will feel greater in the long run. The meek shall inherit the earth or whatever