Beating down the Undead

Velusion · #1 October 5th, 2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Baalz said:
The thing is, once you start talking about an Ermor who is fielding 5k+ armies you can't fight them with a war of attrition. You can't dump all your air gems into summoning 50 air elementals because there's just gonna be another army showing up on your doorstep in a few turns. For phantasmal summons you're gonna have to use waaaay too many mages to make it worthwhile. The real insidious thing about the undead is they...just...keep...coming!

Agreed

Yea if you are talking about a large game the amount of huge armies LA Ermor can field is pretty insane by the late game. Priests are only really helpful in the early game unless you mass some outrageous number (30+)? Battlefield wide spells like solar brilliance and undead mastery will cripple them quickly however and are the most cost effective solutions at that point. Communion/sabbath it up!

The real question is if your mages can reach the target armies before succumbing to assassination spells/thugs

(at least that's the question in MP).

Another thing to try is to mass teleporting thugs to assault his undefended temples (he should have alot). This will hurt him a lot in the long run (but might not be enough to save you at the moment).

Valandil · #2 October 5th, 2007, 06:31 PM

Although I wouldn't dare use it in MP now, mists of deception+retreat(+wrathful) will kill the entire undead army for about 10 gems.

What would confusion do, out of curiosity? The dead are mindless, so I'd have thought it wouldn't target them, but I've never actually tried.

You're playing midgard in MP without a bles, correct? With an air pretender? Absolutely no hope of undead mastery, I suppose?

Snacktime · #3 October 5th, 2007, 08:37 PM

I don't really understand how anyone is ever able to cast Undead Mastery. It is a D7, 700 fatigue spell. Can someone explain this to me? In general I am frustrated by my inability to successfully script even 100 fatigue spells, the AI seems to stop my mages from getting even that much fatigue. Am I missing something? I mean how would you get your death magic up to like D12 or whatever it would have to be to cast Undead mastery?

Nikolai · #4 October 5th, 2007, 08:48 PM

D7 mage (Demilich + skull staff + skull helmet + ring of sorcery) will cast D7 spell with 7 death gems. He will end with 200 fatigue, not 700. True - checked!

But notice that if a spell has X00 fatigue, mage needs X gems (or more). If he hasn't, we won't cast. Even if he has higher level than X, he still needs X gems.

Velusion · #5 October 5th, 2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Snacktime said:
I don't really understand how anyone is ever able to cast Undead Mastery. It is a D7, 700 fatigue spell. Can someone explain this to me? In general I am frustrated by my inability to successfully script even 100 fatigue spells, the AI seems to stop my mages from getting even that much fatigue. Am I missing something? I mean how would you get your death magic up to like D12 or whatever it would have to be to cast Undead mastery?

Without hitting 200 fatigue? Communion. Use a communion mastery collar if you need to.

Snacktime · #6 October 5th, 2007, 09:23 PM

Nikolai - I know he needs the 7 gems, but I thought he still takes 700 fatigue, which means no dice. And also it often seems to me that the AI won't let you cast a spell if it will put you over 100 fatigue. I can't really understand how that works, but at least it seems like some spells you script aren't cast for fatigue reasons even though they wouldn't kill you. I wish I knew how that worked because it really annoys me when I script someone to cast a spell that I realize will get him over 100 and he won't cast it.

I can see how communion would make this possible yes, but that would be seriously hard too. and if i'm doing the math right, you'd need to get to D10 to get the fatigue from Undead Mastery under 200, and D14 to get the fatigue down to 100. As I said, I don't understand when the game lets you cast spells over 100 fatigue, but it doesn't seem to let you do it all the time.

Valandil · #7 October 6th, 2007, 12:40 AM

Actually, you can do this:

Ctissian saurolich (for example).

D10. Scepter of dark regency, crystal shield, jade mask, robe of the magi, ring of sorc, ring of wiz, cast power of the spheres.

You are D20. undead mastery gives about 5 fatigue.

Nikolai · #8 October 6th, 2007, 12:50 AM

Well, sometimes, AI will refuse to cast. It thinks enemy is not worth it, and it can be VERY wrong. Sometimes, AI finds no target. I just watched a battle, wraith lord with D10 was scripted for shadow blast, there were targets in range, he decided to cast "raise dead". He was right in particular, cause enemy was beated, so maybe your caster thought Undead Mastery was not effective?