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October 12th, 2007, 06:47 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Air bless: useless?
Imprisoned - points remaining - no scales, dom8
Cyclops E9: +160
Titan E9 A2: +82
Cyclops E9A6: -50
Titan E9A6: +2
What can I get with your better scales? I've already got order 2 and productivity 3. Certainly, 160 points could go into luck and magic or growth but... Having death is part of my defensive strategy. Any normal nation coming into my territory is going to have a 60% supply hit. Going above magic one gives me that horrid MR penalty. It wouldn't be so horrid except R'lyeh is in the same game. As well, most of my mages are NOT good enough to make any tactical advantage of this. I'd seriously considered taking drain because of R'lyeh, but decided it would make me completely dependent on Skull Mentors and I couldn't depend on the necessary gem income.
As an experiment- I'm going to try my same expansion with earth nine cyclops, dom.8, order 3, prod 3, cold 2, growth 0, luck 0, and Magic 1.
That said, has anybody tried my example?
Even placed all the way at the back, crossbowmen can hit my Tungalik. Without the leader surviving, my strategy falls apart.
As well, with task forces of size 16, attrition is fairly high taking on a forty infantry and crossbowmen. Two deaths are 12% of my force, and each death increases my loss rate. I just can't maintain the momentum of my rapid expansion. With the air bless, I can attack province after province without pausing for reinforcements.
Repeating myself, I'm not buying the air magic just for the bless...
To share some rationale- not all - you have to keep in mind Atlantis' poor precision, and lack of archers.
About a quarter of my Angakok have 1 air, or 1 earth. Wind Guide, Arrow Fend, and Mist are A2/A3/A3, but all one hundred fatigue. With one Winged Helmet I can cast any of those spells. 1 gem to to boost my path to 3, and 1 to cover the cost.
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October 12th, 2007, 07:03 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Re: Air bless: useless?
Test Cyclops E9: Task force breaks down at about third province, either retreating or taking 50% casulties.
Titan: first province 16 vs 50. One casualty, 3 afflictions versus 37 units consisting of LI, HI, Crossbowmen
Second, 15 vs 24. Archers, LI. 0 Casualties. Gained only 1 affliction.
Third: 15 vs 36. HI, LI (javelins). Casualties 2
Fourth 13 vs 18. Casulties 0.
So... here's my evidence that an air bless is far from garbage. As part of a bless strategy as you might use with Mictlan or Jotunheim, it may not be worthwhile, but as part of another strategy (just like you take death pretender for the globals), it can be very powerful.
I'll do one more test, hoping to find more archers on the next map, and less Heavy Cavalry. This test, as an example, is a little lacking.
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October 13th, 2007, 11:09 AM
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Second Lieutenant
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: country of stinky fromages
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Re: Air bless: useless?
I also like to take some air, so that my pretender can come in for a mass murder. To push it to 4 to have some benefits is a luxury with most factions, but a sacred like the assartut can take much support from it.
For all those reasons I think LP is right (may you set back those chtonian things to were they belong), and that an air bless indicates this pretender shoots with surnatural precision.
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October 13th, 2007, 05:10 PM
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Second Lieutenant
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Re: Air bless: useless?
Here's an alternative air bless:
Minor bless: 25% lightning resistance. So air-4 gives 25%, air-6 gives 50%, air-8 gives 75% amd air-10 100%. This is still limited, but it does open up more tricky tactics. For example, taking air-6 would be enough to ensure a lightning immune sacred army when combined with Storm Warriors.
Major bless: mirror image. This would stack with casted mirror images and the glamour ability, instantly making this bless desirable for air nations.
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October 12th, 2007, 07:15 PM
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Second Lieutenant
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Air bless: useless?
20% airshield is not going to save you from attrition though. Xbow still has 80% chance of penertrating your airshield. Ditto for the commander. If commander surviving is so important, you would have to require more than 20% airshield to deflect arrows.
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October 12th, 2007, 07:35 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Re: Air bless: useless?
Test continued.
That task force had a Pyrrhic victory in the fifth province. Leaving only 5 units left alive (including commander).
Another task force has made it through five provinces with 13 survivors. I'll see how far they continue.
Anyways, I have six air, or 40% airshield. It's not really fifty percent, but I'll say so anyways for simplicity's sake.
One Tungalik has 12 hitpoints, the Arssartut 16. As my formation puts the Tungalik a few squares behind, but still close enough to make the third bless without moving, he's not a prime target for the enemy, more like for stray fire. Meaty enough to take one arrow without problems. But unlike other mages, there's no way to cast stoneskin or mirror image or body ethereal, or other protective spells. Best I get is Quicken Self- useless for ranged.
Taking half as many arrows for someone who needs only get hit twice is a big deal- especially when there is no 'fire rear' command and they're not big enough to be a target. As an aside, the protection bless helps here as well, but not well enough on its own. Bringing me from 5/8 to 9/12. With the protection bonus, that many other mage-priests cannot get, I can last even longer, being able to take two hits and keep on going, albeit damaged.
In the meanwhile, my Arssartuts still suffer from attrition, but at a significantly lower rate. There's a big difference between stopping at the third province and making it through five or more, non-stop. My bless isn't awesome enough to prevent casualties. That's one reason I'm sending out forces every other turn, despite some tests where 8 took out five times their number. I plan for loss in exchange for momentum and research. At half the ranged casualties, I can fight twice as many battles before my capabilities are compromised.
I'm not saying that Air is an awesome bless, worth taking only for its own sake. But it can make a big difference as part of your strategy.
Update: My second task force has made it through NINE provinces- and still has seven members, one commander left. The last fight involved 1 commander, 8 troops taking on 43 woodsmen (blowpipe, archers). And I suffered only one casulty.
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