Is black plate worth it?

[Reverend Zombie]

Sir_Dr_D said:
Plus I think that a good themetic way to fix ulm is to give them catapullts and siege engines. These can be researched in the construction path, and created by the smiths. You can have different kinds such as

Taking the idea of Ulm's research into technology instead of magic even further would be to give them gunpowder units. This idea is anathema to many, however, from a thematic standpoint.

But I quite like the gunpowder units the Warhammer Empire Army gets, for example.

[Sombre]

Just so you know, I'm currently working on a Warhammer Empire nation for Dom3, to follow on from Skaven and Ogre Kingdoms, but all the gunpowder tech is being replaced by stuff which fits in with dom3.

[jaif]

Plus I think that a good themetic way to fix ulm is to give them catapullts and siege engines.

They have sappers, so they can handle sieges.

I've been thinking about this overnight. If you want to fix ulm without adding new rules and staying within the general framework of the game and the nation, then I think they need the following.

1) Sergeants. Same as commanders of ulm, but leader 10 with standards. Make good thugs for small units.

2) Better black steel available at construction-4 and construction-8. This black steel should have added benefits like encumbrance reduction, fire/cold/shock resistance, etc.

3) Ritual spells that upgrade black steel armor for a gem cost, stats consistant with #2. So at con-4 you get a single-target ritual, and con-5 you get a multi-target ritual (so you can upgrade 10 people's black plate at once).

With these changes, a) ULM can take advantage of their item construction better by making cheap thugs, b) those thugs can help their units (via standards), c) give them a different flavor by having a late-game army of small, high-prot units, and d) make black steel plate a thing for mid-to-late game as well.

[thejeff]

I like commanders with standards. Or just a general morale boost: We are all elite troops! And we know it!
Or just for the Black Plate troops. Boost their skills too. Elite troops get the best armor.

Make it the best mundane armor. It's supposed to be Ulm's great discovery, but the consensus is the chain mail troops are better. Boost the protection, drop the fatigue. Make those troops dangerous in the early game. They'll still fall to double bless, or elephants, or SC pretenders, but everyone else should have serious problems facing them with troops.

Sidetracked, I was supposed to be commenting on jaif's ideas.
1) Mini thugs and standards. I like.

2) Not really modable. No nation specific item changes.

3) Nor this. No way I know of to mod spells that upgrade items.
Both would require changes to the game engine.

But, you could fake some of it, by making spells that summon troops/commanders with that better armor. Conceptually, the troop are recruited normally and the gem cost goes to the armor, but mechanically it's a summon.

They should be cheap, because they're still vulnerable humans under the gear. The troops will be little more than a good meat shield in the mid game and the commanders low-end thugs, but still a nice addition.

[jaif]

Can a spell remove an item and create another in its place?
Can a spell remove a unit and create another in its place?

If those two are too difficult, then black plate is doomed in the long run unless someone spots a cool tactic. It's just that prot 20 vs 17 is not a big deal when the fireballs are zipping around, or when panic is rampant.

But hopefully the leader 10 thugs could help. A cheap chassis for the cheap items, that also enhances the troops.

-Jeff