Kugelblitz and Company.

RecruitMonty · #1 November 2nd, 2007, 03:31 PM

Look carefully and you will see that all the important info has been translated (it is in brackets like this). The tank at the Patton museum is a prototype tank isn't it? It is more than likely that the tank there is unfinished, hence the turret looking the way it does. The gun on the Panther II was supposed to be mounted in a Schmallturm and was not meant to have the muzzle on the end of it. Just a plain barrel. For all we know the Americans might very well have captured a Panther F and thought it was a new model. Mind you I'd still like to know where their turret ended up.

How much does the regular Panther weigh? This one weighs over 50 tonnes. How can the drive train, transmission, road wheels, suspension etc be the same if the tank is smaller or basically the same as the original Panther series? If everyone (well most everyone) choses to model it like that then that is how it should be modelled.

Yep, Panzerlexikon.de states that the Prototype the Amis captured was unfinished. It also states that the original model from 1943 was continually developed and improved durng the course of the war. What is needed is accurate information about the projected design from 1945. It also states that the one captured by the Amis was definatley missing the turret, hence the Panther G turret.

RecruitMonty · #2 November 2nd, 2007, 03:51 PM

Well, just pick the optimal loadout then. The Schmalturm (Schmalturm by the way means small turret)developed by Mercedes Benz was smaller anyway. Shorten the tiger II hull a little bit and decrease the gradient at the front a little (last part only when necessary). As for the rear of the tank, well I see no reason why you can't just use the Tiger II layout.

oragus · #3 November 2nd, 2007, 04:05 PM

You can tell the susupension is not of the Ausf F type. Not enough road wheels to be of Ausf F type. The Ausf F type had the same configuration as the Ausf G model, which had 8 sets of road wheels, with the exception they were using all steel road wheels, which the Ausf G Late models were using as well. The picture clearly shows 7 sets.

You are absolutely correct, it was to have the "narrow" turret mounted. None were finished. Yep the American installed a Panther Ausf G Late model turret on it. I know that a few of the "narrow" turrets ended up in Britian for testing. It would have been very cool to see the Brits send one of them over to us after their test so we could mate it up with the Panther II hull.

44.29 tons(45,500kg). Well, the drive train, transmission, road wheels, suspension, etc, were all a more heavy duty build. They were built for the King Tiger, a 70+ ton vehicle. Plus, you have to consider all the extra weight from the added armor all the way around. It adds up in a hurry with some thing so large. I agree with you that its probably bigger, but not by much. IE why I was asking for specs earlier. When I say bigger I am referring to a matter a inches longer, it will be a small dimensional difference, no doubt about that, but not the difference between the Panther G and King Tiger.

Panther Ausf G length: 22'6"
width: 11'2"
King Tiger length: 23' 9"
width: 12' 3"

For the record. I am just gabbin here, enjoying the debate. I don't get to do this often.

Just goes to show ya how much detail I try to put into my work....lol. I know I know, crazy....LOL.

RecruitMonty · #4 November 3rd, 2007, 09:47 PM

The lengths and widths between the two are already not so big. With the increases I think it will be very close. So I agree. I am sorry to say that you will have to just make do with what information you have and make an educated guess.

oragus · #5 November 10th, 2007, 08:20 PM

Does anyone know if that 10.5cm version of the Panther is an open topped turret?

RecruitMonty · #6 November 10th, 2007, 08:46 PM

10.5cm... No I don't think it was open topped.

oragus · #7 November 10th, 2007, 09:44 PM

Ok, here is what I came up with for the Kugelblitz II. Now keep in mind, I tried to keep it practical and not redo the entire thing. I developed the Pz IVL. The refined front half of the hull and went from there. I based the Kugelblitz II on the Pz IVL. If you want the "mini-Panther Ausf F". That will be down the development tree....LOL. If you like it I will continue to work on other patterns for it, or even develop the "mini-Panther Ausf F" when I get the Panther Ausf F completed.

oragus · #8 November 10th, 2007, 10:07 PM

Speaking of the Pz IVL. Here it is to check out as well.