Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN

[Lord_Bob]

That's probably why none of these three nations has ever registered a win in multi-player.

You've made it very clear to me that being completely helpless before raiders is no real problem so long as you invest in defense as much as they invest in offense. And don't mind your provinces being continously overtaxed and captured.

But hey, by Late Game, none of this matters. Of course, gold doesn't really matter in Late Game either. So, do you take 3 Disorder and 3 Luck every game? Since Gold doesn't matter in Late Game, that seems like a strategy For The Win. You have an even bigger edge because all those idiots with multiple wins in MP are taking order! They are handicapping themselves by hundreds of points! You'll clean their clocks good!

[Sandman]

Bandar Log is a fairly good nation. The Markatas are okay chaff, and you can always mind hunt or teleport something nasty onto raiders.

[Lord_Bob]

Bandar Log is a fairly good nation. The Markatas are okay chaff, and you can always mind hunt or teleport something nasty onto raiders.

I would like to emphasize that these forces are not "stealth" in any way and can very easily have an Astral Mage lying around. However, I wouldn't bother with that. Mind Hunt forces me, sob, to add another commander to the force. Total cost:230 gold. But if Bandar Log wants to use 4 astral pearls and 2 mage-turns, I'm sorry, 2 BOOSTED Mage-Turns in order to kill 230 gold, then I think he should. Or does it take 3 castings to kill two commanders? Well then, 6 Astral Pearls. I think that's great. Of course, if I get tired of this, I'll develop the nasty habit of teleporting high Astral Mages onto some raiding groups, thus hopefully feebleminding several extremely expensive mages.

[Sandman]

Lord_Bob said:

I would like to emphasize that these forces are not "stealth" in any way and can very easily have an Astral Mage lying around. However, I wouldn't bother with that. Mind Hunt forces me, sob, to add another commander to the force. Total cost:230 gold. But if Bandar Log wants to use 4 astral pearls and 2 mage-turns, I'm sorry, 2 BOOSTED Mage-Turns in order to kill 230 gold, then I think he should. Or does it take 3 castings to kill two commanders? Well then, 6 Astral Pearls. I think that's great. Of course, if I get tired of this, I'll develop the nasty habit of teleporting high Astral Mages onto some raiding groups, thus hopefully feebleminding several extremely expensive mages.

If the Bandar Log player is going for a mind hunt strategy, they're probably going to have booster items lying about anyway. Risking high level astral mages to support a cheap-o incursion strategy strikes me as foolhardy.

In any case, Bandar Log's troops all have move-2 and forest survival, so they're going to be able to move swifty to counter improvised incursions. And don't forget the recruitable-anywhere sacreds.

[Sandman]

In my experience playing a MP game with Bandar Log, the main points of pain for Bandar Log are:

1. Crappy forts. Mostly fortified cities. Sometimes you want these, mostly you want something cheap.

2. Crappy priests. Combined with the above, it blunts the recruitable-everywhere-sacred edge.

3. Crappy searching. Bandar Log is a real gem-hog, with its summons and gem-heavy battlemagic. But the Rishis only have map-move 1, and remote searching spells may accentuate your gem shortage if you're unlucky.

[Hadrian_II]

Sandman said:
In my experience playing a MP game with Bandar Log, the main points of pain for Bandar Log are:

2. Crappy priests. Combined with the above, it blunts the recruitable-everywhere-sacred edge.

I think this only slows down early expansion, as the 9hp unarmored priests just like to be shot with an arrow and rout everything. But later you can either recruit siddhas for your bigger armies or just recruit enough indy priests to bless your armies.

Sandman said:3. Crappy searching. Bandar Log is a real gem-hog, with its summons and gem-heavy battlemagic. But the Rishis only have map-move 1, and remote searching spells may accentuate your gem shortage if you're unlucky.

Sandman said:
This is a problem, especially with their lack of magic paths . But i would say that you get more gems for remote site searching than it costs, so it should not shorten your gem supply.

Lord_Bob said:
Attempts to raid them with "200 gold force"

Why dont you just get your own 200 gold force out if indys instead of buying 20 PD for the same price, so you have at least a 50% chance in winning.

[Lord_Bob]

Why dont you just get your own 200 gold force out if indys instead of buying 20 PD for the same price, so you have at least a 50% chance in winning.

And then I put them in every province and pay maintenace every turn. And then they die to a slightly more powerfull force. PD, in order to be effective, has to be CHEAPER THAN THE RAIDING FORCE THAT CAN BEAT IT.

[Yucky]

Hadrian_II said:this only slows down early expansion

Early expansion is one of the most important things in MP.

[Lord_Bob]

I'm sorry, you can only attack a province you are adjacent to. So if by "swiftly", you mean two turns, yes. And the high level astral mage leaves the next turn, using a "move into friendly territory" move. Or he can pop a Returning if for some bizarre reason I decide to do that. Of course, the bandar and teleport mages onto him..... which won't stop the returning though... Now we are getting quite expensive, eh? All for a little 200 gold raiding force.

[thejeff]

Nonsense. I never said gold doesn't matter. I never said lousy PD didn't suck. I just said the monkeys have some other advantages that can make up for it.
So you have to be more active on defense than some others, who can hide behind walls of PD.

But what do I know? They are completely useless nations and I've been trounced by them, so I must really suck anyway.
Listen to K, he's much better with them than I am. They probably just don't fit my playing style. Maybe they're not right for yours either?


There are ~30 nations listed in the Victorious Nations thread out of 60+. 3 nations not appearing is not statistically meaningful.
Lanka has won. Do they have the same PD?