Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN

NTJedi · #1 November 6th, 2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Lord_Bob said:
I have killed over 250 men, including 18 lava men, also have killed 90 longdead(I know it's not important), a prophet, 2 mages from abysia, and something like 6 mages from EA Ermor. Not sure what the mages cost. MA MAN's capital has become a Roach Motel. Serious Combat Magic is being to come out though. So I think my fun is nearly over.

Telestic Animations should help your dominion, hopefully you have an astral mage to cast antimagic... twist of fate might also extend your life for the province.
Before they storm the castle have someone in the back with lots of life holding a staff of storms... this will stop most flyers and you can hold them back at the gate longer.

Don't fight for death and glory... fight for ROHAN and let the horn of Mans Helm be heard one last time !

Baalz · #2 November 6th, 2007, 06:28 PM

Whooo, seems like some strong opinions here. Not to beat a dead horse, but PD strength is a characteristic of a nation which you plan around. Some nations have crappy PD, I doubt anyone would argue that the monkeys are one of them, this is hardly a insurmountable disadvantage. Some nations have their only good troops cap only, some have old mages, some have dominions with potentially negative effect (disease, insanity, death), some have high resource requirements, some have cold blooded/undead/demonic/aquatic only/no archer/low magic versatility/low MR weaknesses...these are all things you plan around. Several people have offered ways to compensate for weak PD, there are also others if you're clever. Suffice it to say small raiding parties are hardly an unbeatable strategy to use against Bandar Log and I don't consider them weak at all.

Lord_Bob · #3 November 6th, 2007, 06:42 PM

Please name the nation with a weaker PD.

That is my one and only request of you.

Name the nation with a weaker PD.

I am willing to run a simulation of that nations PD against 17 Armoured Indie Archers and a Commander at 15 PD. I will then run Ape PD against 17 Indie Armoured Archers and a Commander at 25 PD. Guess which one will win? Guess which one might win if it is very, very lucky?

NTJedi · #4 November 6th, 2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Lord_Bob said:
Please name the nation with a weaker PD.

That is my one and only request of you.

Name the nation with a weaker PD.

I am willing to run a simulation of that nations PD against 17 Armoured Indie Archers and a Commander at 15 PD. I will then run Ape PD against 17 Indie Armoured Archers and a Commander at 25 PD. Guess which one will win? Guess which one might win if it is very, very lucky?

I'm not on anyones side, but I'd like to see it compared against Machaka's PD of 15.

I do believe an upgrade option should exist for province defence(with upkeep based on distance from capital) which would add another layer of depth to the game.

Lord_Bob · #5 November 6th, 2007, 06:55 PM

Yes, the Machaka Militia also have no armour and no shield on their base unit. So they to should completely fail the 17 Archer Challenge. They need to be upgraded as well.

Importantly, everyone else also agrees that Machaka is a "troubled" nation. Further proof of my statements.

Evilhomer · #6 November 6th, 2007, 06:58 PM

Ulm is considered one of the weakest (if not THE weakest) nation in the middle age (Ulm is going to have a hard time against bandar log in my opinion). Yet it has a very decent pd. Can you understand that pd is not the full picture and that you really need to look at the whole nation ?

thejeff · #7 November 6th, 2007, 06:47 PM

Fine, the monkeys have the weakest PD. I never disputed that.
(Don't know for sure, but I'll stipulate it for the sake of argument. It's bad, at least.)

That doesn't mean they're the weakest nations.

sum1lost · #8 November 6th, 2007, 06:50 PM

I propose that Lord Bob use MA ulm against the monkey equivalent. Ulm has some pretty nice pd, it shouldn't be a problem.

Lord_Bob · #9 November 6th, 2007, 06:59 PM

Sure. I'll take MA Ulm versus Bandar Log One VS. One.

Let's do that.

Do I have to win in 20 turns? Are we putting some sort of time limit on it to make it sporting?

Do you even know what you just said?

We'll be in mortal combat a long time before the powerfull combat magic gets out. And my arrow immune soldiers will run over Bandar easily.

johan osterman · #10 November 6th, 2007, 06:56 PM

Bob. As others have pointed out the thread in the MP forum doesn't provide the sort of evidence you are ascribing to it. There aren't enough games counted in it to even award 1 victory to each specific nation. So even if all nations had been played by equally skilled players and were exactly balanced there would still be a pretty good chance that any specific nation would have ended up without any wins.

Not that Patala et all might not have very weak PD, or even be weak nations. But in no way do you have support for the claim that they can never win in MP games.