pretender magic paths advice/midgard strat talk

[OmikronWarrior]

I barely used Einhere's in the one MP game I played. Basically, it seemed like skinshifters outperfomed them in SP tests, and by focusing on skinshifters I could afford to take some sloth to get points elsewhere. It is really hard to exagerate just how survivable Skinshifters are.

As for the Pretenders "role", thats up to you. I tried a SC pretender and got her killed in the first fight against knights, so I'm somewhat down on that idea now. I merely offered those path suggestions as the obvious ways to make the most out of your mages. D-4 would probably be very useful, but its not needed to site search, and D-2 might be handy to KNOW you can build skull staffs (or maybe just trade for them), but unless you are using a Rainbow Chasis chances are you're giving up something to add a a death path to your Air, Nature, and Earth core. Could probably be done, but you might have to give up a SC chasis or Awake Pretender to do so.

As for paths, its probably situational. Thau-2 for Auspex, Gnome Lore, and Haruspux(sp?) obviously, but you're probably going to need to do a touch of manual site searching before hand to set up Gnome Lore and Haruspex. Beyond that, Evocation is very handy, obviously. Unfortunately, Thunder Strike is A3, while you're mages are only guarented A2. They can cast Stormpower to bumb it up, but only if there is a storm. Which means you need the proper evocation spell, or Construction-6. Beyond that, the really good spells are pretty spread out, Gale Gate is Thau-8, Air Queens Conjuration-8 (or is it 7?), Fog Warrior in Alteration, Wrathful Skies in Evocation, etc.

I don't remember the mages types off hand, but you have 2S and 2A2?. I focus on the latter, as to maximize the odds of getting a desirable combination, like A2E2, then add earth boots and you can summon a troll king, whose E3. Give him Earth boots and cast Summon Earthpower and you have an E5 mage. Lots of fun magic at that level. Or E2B2, which lets you summon Storm demons. I'd imagine with postive Magic scales it'd be much more efficient in research to get the Astral mages for research, but you'd still want to buy the Air Mages for diversification and battle magic.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

If you are creating a supercombatant for midgard, select a chassis and I'll give you advice. Not expert advice, but if you're short of ideas, I can give you a starting point.

Working from the Keeper of the Bridge someone mentioned, I'd be sure to get Alteration for mirror image and mist form. But those spells come with a built in fail point. So, get your defense up, or ironskin in. I've got some experience with the Father of Winters as a Supe that I'll post about a little bit later.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

This is not recommended, this is merely a sample pretender to demonstrate some principles for dom3.10 vanilla. You'll want different scales and dominion, most likely dormant. Maybe a different chassis. Anyways, I don't think Midgard is a nation that really wants for a supercombatant strategy.

Keeper of the Bridge, air 4, nature 4, earth 2. Awake, dom6, cold 1, magic 3, death 1.

At start, 80 hitpoints, 16 protection, 13 attack, 14 defense, 18 precision, 21 strength.
14 research, 3 encumberance: 2 basic, 3 melee, 4 spell

Spells of Interest

Personal Regeneration - The regen amount will vary based on your dominion (hitpoints boost), but you can expect about 17 hitpoints per turn in dominion 4. It only gets better from there out. Normally, that would cost you 40 fatigue, but it will work out to somewhere around 15.

Summon Earthpower - only interested for the reinvigoration, but 20 fatigue and one spell slot just for that? Better off forging.

Iron Skin - About 14 fatigue. Brings protection to twenty-six. Combines nicely with Regeneration.

Mirror Image - About 6 fatigue. Creates 8 mirror images. 8/9 chance an attack misses. Dangerous though- once hit once, its gone for good. Can be saturated.

Mistform - About 7 fatigue. Will fail if a). hit by magical weapon b). hit rather hard (after protection is taken into account, btw) c). fail 1% of the time on any hit.

Eagle Eyes, Air Shield- useful if you equip a bow, or if you're expectin missile fire.

The key thing to keep in mind about the air spells are the fail points. They're great, but high defense makes them even better.

Even with air shield, mirror image, and mistform, you'll die against cavalry, even if they're unable to deal you more than one damage.

I'd put my research into reaching alteration-3, then enchant-2, then construction 4. I'd send out my Keeper after alteration 3 was researched, but only against small, lightly defended provinces.

Construction to note:
Level 0- Sword of Sharpness (2H). At this stage I'd avoid shields and armor. The Sword of Sharpness has AP, attack, defense boni, and falls into your national gem income.
Level 2- Weightless Scale Mail reduces your encumberance even further. I'd avoid adding any encumberance yet.
Level 4- I'd forge the Girdle of Might for 3 reinvig. Without anything else but the above items, your fatigue will actually drop in combat.

There's a few more items I'd forge once the gems came in. Some its up to your choice, others, like the Boots of the Messenger are nearly essential. However, I suggested somethign well within your national gem income, 10 air, 10 earth.

Sample Script- Air Shield, Mirror Image, Mistform, Ironskin, Personal Regeneration, Attack

Cavalry has a nasty tendency of interrupting a long script. But still, with the above equipment and no support, positioned at the back of the screen, I can take on heavy cavalry. It might be best to cut that short, or change the order. If the mirror image blunts the first charge, than it does serve its purpose. Thanks to the Weightless armor, you finish casting with about 18 fatigue, going down every turn after.

[VedalkenBear]

Personally, I greatly prefer Einheres to Skinshifters. Skinshifters to me die too quickly for the investment. Against the majority of opponents (ESPECIALLY bow users), Einheres take a great deal of killing. They also have 2 weapons, which makes them great against chaff.

Basically, skinshifters are good against low-count high-quality armies. Einheres aren't bad against them, but they shine against mass armies of light troops. Against Ethereal/Glamoured troops, Einheres also have the advantage of more attacks to get through.

[Shovah32]

Skinshifters having trouble against archers?
You do realise that unarmoured units need to be shieled(via decoys) and/or buffed(storm, arrowfend, marble warriors ect) - you don't usually just throw skinshifters at the enemy without support.

[VedalkenBear]

Even when they get into melee, I find Einheres to be more effective. This is true especially if you have some way of healing their afflictions.

If you shield the Skinshifters with chaff, then you constantly have to replace said chaff. If you buff them, you have to replace the gems you use (I believe you listed nothing but gem-required battle magic; I realize there are others). I prefer armies that are more... self-sufficient.

Granted, Skinshifters allow you to take a Sloth scale whereas Einheres do not. I can't analyze that effect. But I guess my preference is that I like units that I _can_ throw at the enemy without support.

[Shovah32]

VedalkenBear said:
Even when they get into melee, I find Einheres to be more effective. This is true especially if you have some way of healing their afflictions.

If you shield the Skinshifters with chaff, then you constantly have to replace said chaff. If you buff them, you have to replace the gems you use (I believe you listed nothing but gem-required battle magic; I realize there are others). I prefer armies that are more... self-sufficient.

Granted, Skinshifters allow you to take a Sloth scale whereas Einheres do not. I can't analyze that effect. But I guess my preference is that I like units that I _can_ throw at the enemy without support.

I tend to use the Einheres to shield them - they can take arrows nicely and rarely need replaced.
I'll make Skinshifters alot, but my spare resources tend to go to Einheres.

[Aezeal]

at start you won't have much to buff, and probably not much to back up either.. though I figure buying a lil screen for cheap units could be an option... but that would be less skinshifters

[Aezeal]

my idea was

with CB mod (scales and pretenders)

great enchantress (the low HP pretenders are boosted in that mod) A4 W2 E2 S4 D1 N4 F1

dom 7
order 3
prod 2
cold 1
growth 2
misfortune 1
magic 0

I kinda like it I can search for most sites. I have the N4 A4 E2 and S4 for some end age fun with astral.. and she produces astral pearls so I think that won't be a waste..

should I change the D1, W2 and F1 for something in the scales (prod 3 or growth 3 or magic 1?)
or can I actually use those magic paths? (I think that having them for forging won't be bad but maybe that is not enough..

let me know whatever you think about this set-up