Gift of 'Unreason'

[Aezeal]

But why not just use the commander and send him into battle as if he where a trooper? Why waste the bloodslave on degrading a expensive commander (or are your commanders stronger than troops but less expensive (makes not much sense and I still don't know why you'd downgrade them then.))

[DrPraetorious]

Due to the way the mod engine works, what you want is impossible - the effect # for Gift of Reason does not let you do other things, it only lets you elevate units to commanders.

It would also be very difficult if not impossible to engineer a situation in which such a change was in fact desirable. Commanders are better then troops in almost every respect - there are a few situations where the morale effects are better if someone is a troop, but generally the reverse is true.

(I am drunk and apologize if what I said makes no sense.)

[Panpiper]

Situation: On virtually all of my fortresses I am able to recruit each turn one commander and one, count em, one regular troop. I assemble the most powerful armies I can. They consist of bands of 24 commanders (the maximum number of commanders you can select when in the same province) and not much more than 24 troops. A battle is joined, 12 troops are killed, half the army, morale checks are made, the whole force routs, commanders and all.

Now change this situation. I make half my commanders troops. I put them in with the regulars. Their unit morale goes up a bit as does the overall 'staying power' of the troop component due to the significantly tougher 'troops'. The same battle is joined, less than 12 troops are killed, less than a third of the army, much fewer morale checks are made, the army does not rout. Also because I no longer have 24 commanders to stack, I can double the density of the concentration of my forces, so the battle is no longer a mere 24 troops and 24 commanders. Now it is potentially 72 troops and 24 commanders, 72 really tough troops. Now 'there' is a chaos army.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Can you give them a second form that's not a commander, and give them a one way change shape command?

[Panpiper]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
Can you give them a second form that's not a commander, and give them a one way change shape command?

By the Gods of Chaos Lazy_Perfectionist, you are a genius! That might well be exactly how to handle this.

Edit: I spoke too soon. I tried it and couldn't make it work. The unit stays a commander. So you may not be a genius Lazy_Perfectionist, but it was a good idea.

[DrPraetorious]

Yeah, that's not how it works.

I field more than 24 commanders at once all the time. I'm a bit crazy for it, actually.

The restriction that you can only recruit 1 commander/fortress/month is, indeed, a severe restriction - but converting them to non-commanders after they are recruited wouldn't help with that.

As niefelheim, you are very often in a situation similar to the one you describe. When that situation arrives, however, what most people do is simply stop using troops and field commanders exclusively. There are advantages and drawbacks to doing this, but if your commanders are flat-out *better* than your regular troops, sans equipment, this is what you'd tend to do.

Commander-ness is a feature of how recruitment is done, not of the unit # itself .

(I'm drunk again, same schpeal)

[Panpiper]

Is there a ritual spell effect that will let you kill one of your own commanders? A summon monster effect could be added to effectively replace a commander. Maybe though I am flogging a dead cat.

DrPraetorious, how do you control a stack of 'more' than 24 commanders. The screen only allows for 24 'selectable' commanders in a single province. Doesn't such a commander only army have severe problems with rout chances?