MP guide to MA/LA R'lyeh

[mathusalem]

misfortune 3 ?

[Evilhomer]

Thanks for the praise.

About misfortune:
Misfortune 2 is rather safe (though many new players fear this pick). If you ask around among experienced players you will see that the combo "order + misfortune" is very common.

[Networkingguru]

Evilhomer said:
Thanks for the praise.

About misfortune:
Misfortune 2 is rather safe (though many new players fear this pick). If you ask around among experienced players you will see that the combo "order + misfortune" is very common.

I have to say I tried things both ways (misfortune 2 and luck 3), and the misfortune wasn't as bad as I expected. However, I enjoyed the luck scale much more.

[Evilhomer]

Well, you do realise that luck comes with a price right ? Thats 5 scales, i.e 200 design points you are giving up. So the question should really not be if you think luck beats misfortune, but if you cannot find something better to put those 200 design points into. In my experience with R'lyeh in multiplayer games, misfortune has always proven to be a good pick (i.e I have always had something more worthwhile to invest those 200 design points into).

[Networkingguru]

Evilhomer said:
Well, you do realise that luck comes with a price right ? Thats 5 scales, i.e 200 design points you are giving up. So the question should really not be if you think luck beats misfortune, but if you cannot find something better to put those 200 design points into. In my experience with R'lyeh in multiplayer games, misfortune has always proven to be a good pick (i.e I have always had something more worthwhile to invest those 200 design points into).

I agree, and these are SP experiences from my side. However, using the scales/magic listed in the alternate strategy by Zath, along with taking an imprisoned pretender, but using your expansion strategies otherwise (with the exception of using Illithids as the bulk of my armies and not, of course, using a SC pretender), I had much better results in SP than with your strategy alone. I am not trying to discount what you are saying, just sharing my experiences with both strategies.

[Evilhomer]

Of course each player is free to play the way they find the game most enjoyable, and if you enjoy luck/imp pretender combo you should use it.

I wrote the guide with min/maxing kinda approach, to make it as viable as possible if you are looking to win in mp games. In that view I belive picking an imprissoned pretender is a huge blunder, even worse than going with luck in the setup.

Basically there are 3 general reason why you pick an imprissoned pretender, and none applies to R'lyeh in MA or LA. I will list the 3 here:

- Nations that has good/great sacreds: imprisson so you can afford the good blessings - Obviously Rlyeh is not a bless nation.

- Nations that has a large need for great scales: Rlyeh has no need for production, can easily go with extreme temperature scales(won't affect water provinces income) and misfortune (since it is an synergetic choice with order) - So absolutly no need for heavy investment in your scales.

- Nations that has poor magic accesability: Imprissoned pretender with access to lacking magic can boost the end game for your nation - Obviously with 2 100% random picks (WSED), R'lyeh does not have this weakness (follow my guide and you will have access to basically all types of magic you need).

So I cannot understand what your imp pretender adds to your nation (besides points, that are not really needed, as explained above). I do however see what you are giving up:

- Early defense, and to feel safe from a good Oceania player I do really belive this is a good idea.

- Early mass expansion, remember gold is your friend with R'lyeh. I bet you will have atleast 10 provinces less at turn 15 when comparing awake SC pretender/imp pretender.

I do of course appreciate your feedback, and you should play in the manner you find most fun. But honestly SP is not great for evaluating strategies in the long run, since frankly anything beats the computer.

[archaeolept]

luck is more viable if using the Conceptual Balance Scale mod - otherwise, most min/maxers will take something like misfortune -2. Then use the points for an awake SC, or a dormant one that needs research.

[Networkingguru]

Evilhomer said:
Of course each player is free to play the way they find the game most enjoyable, and if you enjoy luck/imp pretender combo you should use it.

I wrote the guide with min/maxing kinda approach, to make it as viable as possible if you are looking to win in mp games. In that view I belive picking an imprissoned pretender is a huge blunder, even worse than going with luck in the setup.

Basically there are 3 general reason why you pick an imprissoned pretender, and none applies to R'lyeh in MA or LA. I will list the 3 here:

- Nations that has good/great sacreds: imprisson so you can afford the good blessings - Obviously Rlyeh is not a bless nation.

- Nations that has a large need for great scales: Rlyeh has no need for production, can easily go with extreme temperature scales(won't affect water provinces income) and misfortune (since it is an synergetic choice with order) - So absolutly no need for heavy investment in your scales.

- Nations that has poor magic accesability: Imprissoned pretender with access to lacking magic can boost the end game for your nation - Obviously with 2 100% random picks (WSED), R'lyeh does not have this weakness (follow my guide and you will have access to basically all types of magic you need).

So I cannot understand what your imp pretender adds to your nation (besides points, that are not really needed, as explained above). I do however see what you are giving up:

- Early defense, and to feel safe from a good Oceania player I do really belive this is a good idea.

- Early mass expansion, remember gold is your friend with R'lyeh. I bet you will have atleast 10 provinces less at turn 15 when comparing awake SC pretender/imp pretender.

I do of course appreciate your feedback, and you should play in the manner you find most fun. But honestly SP is not great for evaluating strategies in the long run, since frankly anything beats the computer.

EvilHomer,

There was a reason I took imprisoned, and I know it had to do with scales/magic, but I'll be darned if I can remember what it was. However, it may have been nature, as I believe I took some points in it to make GoH a reality. Regardless, it may not have been the smartest choice, but I was in LA, so I really didn't have anyone to worry about in the water. Also, once I started using Illithids as my main attack force and freespawns as both chaff and heavy infantry (Othernesses and shapeless things and so forth), things went a LOT better for me than the first game. So, there are likely a lot of factors that led to me liking the modified scales better, not just the luck part, and I should probably play another game using your scales to test it out.

As for SP not being a good test bed, I'm not sure how else you would test. There simply isn't enough time to test in MP, as you pretty much have to know what you are doing or you are quickly dead. So I look at SP as a chance to test various strategies and learn the nation in question. Part of that process is of course pretender design. I'm sure I'll learn more in MP, but you have to get a base somewhere, right?

In the end, I didn't mean to offend you, or say my way was better by any means. I am very grateful for your guide, it helped me a lot, and by no means do I think I have mastered the race or the game. I just wanted to share my experience, and mention that using the modified combination of both strategies presented here gave me the best results in the games I have played so far.