OOBs way out of whack?

[thatguy96]

Deputy said:
M1928A1 Thompson in Viet Nam. M1A1 at a gun range. And they are NOT identical. The 1928A1 has a much higher cyclic rate.

I am curious as to the circumstances of your use of a M1928A1 in Southeast Asia.

[Deputy]

thatguy96 said:

I am curious as to the circumstances of your use of a M1928A1 in Southeast Asia.

I was there in 1968-1969, 2nd Btn, 60th Regt., 9th Infantry Division. We had various weapons assigned to locations in our forward base camp for use when we were there for bunker and tower guard duty. They included M14 rifles with automatic selector switches and the normal M60 and M2 HB machineguns. At the entrance/front gate to our camp we had two Thompson 1928A1 Subguns. At that time the M16 rifle was still suffering all kinds of problems with jamming, so it was thought the Thompson, which had proved to be quite reliable on full auto, would be better served at that location. I believe we bought them from a local ARVN unit that was still using WW2 era weapons. I was lucky enough to be selected to make sure they were in proper firing order so I got a goodly amount of range time. During the Tet offensive I spent one unpleasant evening up all night blasting away with the Tommygun. It never malfunctioned the whole time.

Dep

[narwan]

Deputy, you are consistently mistaken the ability to fire a SMG over distance with chance of hitting something. Despite plenty of indication both by actual users of these types of weapons and historical accounts of their use you keep to your own strict view.

Please understand that this game is a model of reality and not reality itself and as such has to incorporate many different aspects. One of these is that rounds fired by smg's can travel quite some distance and still do harm. Hitting the specific target you aimed at is something else entirely. The game gives smg's a range below the distance the rounds can travel and do harm, so it's already limiting them more than 'reality'. And at more than 1 hex range they are inaccurate in the game.
So if you want to be taken seriously here, do the work. Set up test scenario's and show us that smg's consistently do too much damage against targets at ranges of 100m or more. Make sure you include rifles and automatic rifles in your tests to show the relative effectiveness of smg's.

As a playtester for this game I've done plenty of those sorts of tests myself. And I must say, I recognize very little of what you claim is wrong with the game.

[Deputy]

narwan said:
Deputy, you are consistently mistaken the ability to fire a SMG over distance with chance of hitting something. Despite plenty of indication both by actual users of these types of weapons and historical accounts of their use you keep to your own strict view.

Please understand that this game is a model of reality and not reality itself and as such has to incorporate many different aspects. One of these is that rounds fired by smg's can travel quite some distance and still do harm. Hitting the specific target you aimed at is something else entirely. The game gives smg's a range below the distance the rounds can travel and do harm, so it's already limiting them more than 'reality'. And at more than 1 hex range they are inaccurate in the game.
So if you want to be taken seriously here, do the work. Set up test scenario's and show us that smg's consistently do too much damage against targets at ranges of 100m or more. Make sure you include rifles and automatic rifles in your tests to show the relative effectiveness of smg's.

As a playtester for this game I've done plenty of those sorts of tests myself. And I must say, I recognize very little of what you claim is wrong with the game.

Well all I can give is my actual, hands-on personal experience with the Thompson Submachinegun in a real world situation. If folks want to play a game based in Fantasy Island or with comic book realities, that is THEIR choice. I can understand folks who like to play as Soviet or Finnish troops, and the strong emphasis they place on their favorite weapons. But saying that a 9MM PISTOL cartridge or a 7.62X25 Soviet pistol cartridge can be fired at ranges of 500 meters effectively is just plain nonsense. Instead of relying on info that may be biased for whatever reason, why not just do an internet search of the M31, PPSh, Thompson, or Sten guns and see what the information is there. Look for maximim effective range. I think you will see, as I did, that it shows less than 200 meters. The info is available from numerous reliable sources online, and most all of them agree with each other. Forget about test scenarios, as they are already incorrect with the current settings that exist.

Dep

[Mobhack]

I think you will see, as I did, that it shows less than 200 meters.

3 hexes is 150 metres, which is less than 200 metres (4 hexes).

Time to end this circular argument, you have your views and can edit your OOB set to whatever you feel is correct, with the Mobhack editor, should you wish.

Cheers
Andy

[Deputy]

Mobhack said:

3 hexes is 150 metres, which is less than 200 metres (4 hexes).

Time to end this circular argument, you have your views and can edit your OOB set to whatever you feel is correct, with the Mobhack editor, should you wish.

Cheers
Andy

Roger that!!!

Dep...salutes and heads for the OOB Editing room

[DRG]

And PLEASE don't forget to read the GG before you do so we don't have any further remarks like "Since each hex is 250 meters across ".... with two paragraphs of augments to support the flawed idea......... OK?

Also, Narwan AND PatG AND Marek_Tucan AND I have said the game results you claim to have seen are WAY out of whack with what everyone experiences. PatG suggested you " try a complete delete and reinstall " It is an excellent suggestion because NOBODY and I mean NOBODY ( but you ) thinks ........" the OOBs slanted so much at an Allied advantage in WinSPWW2 that altering the Preferences makes no difference whatsoever"

So , I would highly recommend that you delete your existing install and do new one. This has helped people in the past when things don't jive with what everyone else sees.

OK?

Don