Priests and LA Ermor

[K]

AdmiralZhao said:
To derail a bit: in my test games with Ermor, it has always seemed like they have a real difficulty keeping up in research. Their national mages all require death gems, which are already in huge demand. And even after the mages are created, there is still a lot of competition for their time, as the mages are also needed for site searching, leading armies, summoning more mages, and casting battle field enchantments. How do you manage to stay competitive in research?

Skull Mentors. A Dusk Elder is 25 gems for 6 reseach, and a Mentor is 10 for 9. For the price of two Elders (12 research), you can have 45 points instead (or 63 with a Hammer involved).

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vtb,

How did you get the Holy that high? By my count I'm one short.

[vfb]

K, The First King is H5 to start. (woot! )

Prophetize him, and he's H6. Sword of Injustice, H7. Crystal Shield, H8 in battle. Then Ekishnugal casts Hell Power, and he's H10.

Lord_Bob, I didn't know the discussion was about Marignon and Ermor. Marginon's H3 Inquisitors should really lay some smack down on the undead hordes. And making one H5 by prophetising & Crystal Shield is a good plan. Trade someone for a few Crystal Matrix too (also only Const4), or take a god with earth and astral to make them yourself, and 4 cheap S1 Chartmakers turn your H3s into H5s and your H5 Prophet into H7.

Banishment at H3 is:
Area 8, Damage 11AN, Penetration+1

Banishment at H5 is:
Area 12, Damage 17AN, Penetration+2

Banishment at H7 is:
Area 16, Damage 23AN, Penetration+3

If you don't like that idea, there's also Inner Sun: 1 in 4 Goetic Masters can cast this. It's Alt3, 1 gem, cast it any time before the battle. Script 5 spells then attack closest, and when he gets poked, he explodes for 15AN damage (MR) with area 35. You want to give the undead time to get rid of their javelins so they are nice and close when you set them up the bomb. You could even try a Blink as your final spell, but YMMV with that. Kind of expensive though. Since you didn't like trading 190 gold for 300 undead, you probably won't like this. If you have indies like a 90 gold Magus it would be better.

Or, Conj-6 will get Marignon some Harbringers. Its ranged attack is Area 5, 15AP damage versus undead, 15 shots.

[VedalkenBear]

Bob, you asked for pre-7 Research that could affect Undead. I found, in about 5 minutes consulting the rulebook, any number of spells and/or items that can help to even the fight. I then reported it. Did I say that these would instantly win the fight for you? No. I was answering your question. A question, I might point out, that with a little bit of researching you could have answered yourself. Since 'LE Ermor is so powerful' is a common complaint of newer players, I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that you did not know of common counters to them.

Now, if we're talking about Marignon? You have good priests. And, to be honest, if I knew that Ermor was in a LE game, I'd probably make Inquisitors my researchers, and so I should have ~20 by turn 25 (and those are level 2 priests, not 1). Will it slow down my research? Possibly. OTOH, they're very low upkeep, and their research isn't bad with a good Magic scale (which will help when fighting Ermor in your own Dominion).

IIRC, LE Marignon still gets Holy Pyre, which gives your Goetic Masters something to throw in combat (and they'll last longer with Phoenix Power). Okay, scratch that. Unless the rulebook is incorrect, it's only ME Marignon that gets it. Still, there are rather common Fire evocations they can throw. If you're trying to do fast Blood magic, they can throw Hellfire.

As for a new player? I don't think you want to sling that around without some proof. The fact that I don't have problems with LE Ermor whereas you apparently do would seem to be counterindicative that you are more experienced than I.

[Sombre]

Edi: If you think the posts will incite further trouble wouldn't it make sense to delete them?

I don't have a problem with that.

[Edi]

Sombre said:
Edi: If you think the posts will incite further trouble wouldn't it make sense to delete them?

I don't have a problem with that.

Deleting them is not going to make the things in them unsaid, so it's a completely moot point. I'd rather that the thread stay intact on that score if and when it gets reviewed from higher up.

Whether or not you have a problem with how this is resolved is utterly irrelevant to me, since if I'm going to do something about things, I'm NOT going to consult you about it. The only consulting I will be doing will be with the other moderators. So please do not try to tell me how to do my job as a moderator. With your participation in this thread so far, that's not a good idea.

[Sombre]

Edi said:
Whether or not you have a problem with how this is resolved is utterly irrelevant to me, since if I'm going to do something about things, I'm NOT going to consult you about it. The only consulting I will be doing will be with the other moderators. So please do not try to tell me how to do my job as a moderator. With your participation in this thread so far, that's not a good idea.

As far as I was concerned I was only asking you a question. But if you want to read that as me telling you how to do your job, you have my full permission

[Mindi]

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Lord_Bob you were banned once before in part for trolling. The next ban will be for one week and is the last step before a permanent ban. I hope I have made myself clear and will not have to revisit this thread or any other containing similar attitude and insults from you again. If you reread your posts and can't see what you are doing wrong or the attitude in which everyone is complaining about, then maybe you don't have enough self awareness to be on internet message boards. I am a pretty tolerant person but there are limits.

[Edi]

Sombre said:

As far as I was concerned I was only asking you a question. But if you want to read that as me telling you how to do your job, you have my full permission

Sorry, I guess I overreacted there somewhat. Point taken with that, you were only trying to be helpful with the suggestion. My apologies for snapping like that and no hard feelings.

[Torin]

Maybe you should not underestimate the undead.
bring several (a LOT of) priests (lvl 1 is ok)
Frontline infantry (or any tough guys like vine ogres)
Archers (they often kill more undead than the priests)

if you dont deal with ermor quick you should get an ally or you could be overwelmed.

if you are, try a mass damage spell like wrathful skyes or earthquake.
Blade wind is optimal. most of the undeads are unarmed souless reanimated by priests and not the legionaries guys.

i didnt try but maybe stuff like swarm may work.

[Lord_Bob]

if you are, try a mass damage spell like wrathful skyes or earthquake.

Earthquake doesn't work.

I assume the shield value is added in for Castle Undead. Cause I hit them like 4 times and killed only about a 1/3.

40% of them were the armourless, Tower-Shield wielding castle guys. 5 hitpoints and no armour.