Unkillable aircraft!!!

[Marek_Tucan]

Deputy said:
That's WHY the MkII tanks with 20MM cannon EXISTED.

They existed because 20mm offered better AP performance than 7.92mm machinegun and because it had at least some HE shell, but I won't say it was some kind of meat chopper like multiple - barrelled mounts. For one, even though the gun allowed for automatic fire, clip loading limited it significantly (there's somewhere a long thread about the matter whether the burst fire was SOP for Pz II at all). Useful, but definitely not some ultimate infantry killer.

Even troops in foxholes shouldn't have much protection, since the flak is air burst and the shrapnel would fly in ALL directions, including down.

Depends on flak, to my knowledge all small caliber AA of WWII was contact-primed, ie no airburst, and small-caliber airburst comes as late as now. Except for some constructions (German 20mm had it, dunno how many others), where the shell exploded upon impact OR upon tracer burnout. But then it provides you extremely unuseful airburst as it happens in a fixed distance and moreover over a range where your fire is woefully inaccurate. So trenches or almost any cover would be most helpful - the stories with flak mowing down helpless soldiers come mostly from either short-range ambushes or from flat terrain with little cover.
Another edge of flak comes from heavier shells, and thus better performance against cover and various soft or lightly armored targets - as it should have in-game due to bigger warhead rating.

Quite honestly, I don't think it's worth it to expend points on flak weapons in WinSPWW2. As you pointed out, they are relatively useless against enemy planes.

Then, in real life, flak was most significant threat in high concentrations, like around crucial targets or roads, and that was usually behind the scope of frontline SP covers. That's also why there's no heavy flak in SPWW2/SPMBT. In frontline area, flak served more like an attempt to shoo away enemy than to shoot him down (after all, the same as with convoy escorts - their primary task was not to sink submarines but to keep them away from cargo ships).

[chuckfourth]

Hi Marek
There is also a very short thread called "New info re KWK30/38" that supplies a reference stating that the 20mm as mounted in the pz 2 only fires semi automatic.
One point I would like to make about flak is that if the plane is actually shooting at the flak gun, then the flak gun no longer has to estimate lead. I think this makes it much easier for the flak gun to hit the plane, especially if you have a rangefinder and so know the correct elevation for your gun. This in combination with the much longer effective range of Flak compared to an aircraft. For 20mm flak 38 vs spitfire, the flak can start firing at the spitfire from about 2 klms away while the spitfire has to close to about 300m before he can start firing. considering this, I think that in the game it is a bit too easy for planes to take out flak
Best Regards Chuck

[MajorDisaster]

I havent stuck a oar in for a while. Aircraft are definitely not unkillable but you need to put flak in your core and gain experience with it then you'll catch some of them. I've rarely seen a tank KO'd by aircraft, but disabling is frequent, which is fair enough. And anyway the AI often wastes a lot of it's time disabling halftracks and coming back later to finsh them off when they're already useless to you. My only "problem" with aircraft is their ability to spot armour in woods/built up areas. An amazing talent in a speeding fighter. That isn't restricted to the AI; pilots of airstrikes Ive launched have sometimes displayed awesome eyesight.

[chuckfourth]

HI Majordisaster
Thanks for the advice but I dont play campaign only PBEM. so Ill have to make do with AA as is. Yes I greatly dislike Fighter bomber recon as there is no real world mechanism for any information the pilot may have to get to the ground formations anyway.
Best Regards Chuck.