Elli (Started)

[Aethyr]

Well, after playing a couple of games on Aran now I think with 8-9 players someone's bound to find themselves in a very early war.

In the Alta game I found myself boxed in between R'lyeh (who knocked out Machaka quick) and Abysia, who almost single-handledly wiped-up the map with everyone else. FAJ's a very good player; between his skill and my starting position, there was not much I could do.

In the Elli game...well I suspect I'll be fodder soon either to the next wave of Caelum's elephant rush, or to the mighty giants of Fomoria who have just appeared on my border.

I'm not complaining; its just the luck of the draw. It just means that you must have a strategy that allows you to expand quickly and protect yourself from early rushes.

However, with 8 players I think that Llamabeast's modified Paraganos map (used in the Chupacabra game), with modded starting positions, would probally give each player a good chance of expanding and make for a more robust mid-end game. You may want to give this map some consideration for future games.

[Sensori]

Parganos is simply hideous for even that lone water nation, though. Aran's bad with its snaky sea, but Parganos... It has the worst snaky sea ever, AND it has an unconnected sea which you can't get to without marching through land, which means if you're unlucky you won't be getting there at all.

So as someone who's playing a water nation, I much prefer this one snaky sea over a river with a pond that's not connected to my river.

[Tharsonius]

there is no unconnected water and still you are marching through a lot of land already...

[Sensori]

If a few shore provinces count as "marching through a lot of land", sure, you're right.

[IndyPendant]

Yeah LP, that's what I expected, random starts.

Just the luck of the draw. I started at 65, with 3 neighbours, one a plains. *sigh* --And then! I found out that Sauromatia started at 73 and Atlantis at 101 (sorry if that was any big secret, Sensori : ).

/rant on

There are 107 provinces on this map--96 land. Aethyr and I have 14 of them IN TOTAL. The other 6 players must be well spread out; you have around 15 provinces each to play with. Enjoy!

It was an amazingly crappy start for me--but just barely good enough that I couldn't cry foul until I found my neighbours, a few turns in. With my playtesting, and this MP game, I've already decided I *DESPISE* the Aran map, and will never, ever play in it again. Too much chance for someone getting stuck out on a peninsula with nowhere to go, or down in that crappy wasteland corner.

Also: random starts, imo, should NEVER be used for MP games. It really sucks to commit months of a person's time to a game--only to realize that you've got no room to expand in any direction. If an MP map has 8 players, 8 starting points should be picked out, and then assigned randomly. Much more chance of not being a waste of time.

I don't know if I've salvaged anything and created a game where I have a half-assed chance of winning. Only time will tell, but if I have done so, it was only by trampling over (literally ; ) Aethyr's game. Because of my crappy start, one of us--quite possibly both of us--had to have the game stripped from them.

/rant off

Anyways, just putting this out there as food for thought for future games. I'm still going to play this one through, and see how it goes...

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Anyways... thanks for the feedback- I see where you're coming from, for sure.

Actually, I am stuck on that peninsula- and barely secured a route outwards.

Though actually, I like Aran for these reasons. I like the extra tension and the idea that I could be eliminated at any time. I appreciate the risk of early elimination. I learn more from a quick vicious war and defeat than in a game such as BAG where I rot in peace for three years from a bad start position and timid diplomatic choices, despite having a large swath of wastlands and swamps available to me.

That said, check out Halls of Valhalla - my first post lets the players select either map, aran or paraganos. And if you get in there really _REALLY_ early, right when a new game is started up (before it gets its own thread) you get a chance to really customize it. I'm afraid though, that once gets its own thread, it isn't likely to change.

P.S. Games I'm involved in, I have an interest in Aran, I'll be careful to mention the map. For the other games, the ones I'm just administering, though... I'll use the thrice-modified version of Paraganos as the default when the players have no preference.

I am familiar enough with the map editor now to take on custom positions... but before I do that, I'd like to see each players:
1). Name
2). Nation
3). Province index # where their capital is
4). Rate position great, good, ok, weak, or horrible
5). If its a bad postion, mention what's wrong with it.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to wait, and would get this information now, so I could start thinking it over. Realistically, some of this information might not be the sort of stuff you want to let out there. Practically, I recently kicked off Forseti, though there aren't many takers for the settings of that one... so it'll probably be a while before I start a new one, anyways. OTOH, nothing is stopping me from organizing another 8 player one (that I will not be participating in).

To sum: in a week or so, when the information isn't classified, could you please evaluate your starting positions and pass that information on to me?

[Aethyr]

I don't mind sharing:

1) Aethyr
2) Sauromatia
3) 73
4) OK

While I agree with many of Indy's points: starting very close (relatively) to another player presents some challenges.

However, I think that thing that he's not giving enough credit to is diplomacy. When he chose to attack there wre several indy (no pun intended) provinces to be had. Additionally, especitally since he got the jump on me, I was willing to offer terms that were quite favorable. Instead, he decided that it was more beneficial to his cause if he eliminated me sooner rather than alter. I'm not faulting him; in his position I may have made the same choice. BTW Indy, I still have not conceeded that you are strong enough to break me.

Don't get me wrong, I'd MUCH rather have 10-12 or so provinces to work in before an early encounter, but I also enjoy the dimensions that an early encounter and diplomacy bring to the game. Hope this helps.