US Sniper rifle???

[MarkSheppard]

Nope...if you have ever played the previous incarnation of this game, the SIMULATION called Steel Panthers: World at War,



Hey genius; the previous incarnation of this game was Steel Panthers 1. SP WaW is Matrix Games' own take at updating Steel Panthers.

[Deputy]

MarkSheppard said:
Nope...if you have ever played the previous incarnation of this game, the SIMULATION called Steel Panthers: World at War,



Hey genius; the previous incarnation of this game was Steel Panthers 1. SP WaW is Matrix Games' own take at updating Steel Panthers.

Tsk tsk...such namecalling!!! Hey EINSTEIN, SP:WAW came out BEFORE WinSPWW2. But they are BOTH based on Steel Panthers.

[Marek_Tucan]

On different variants though, on different engines. With different strengths and weaknesses. Some people like WaW more, some (me included) MBT/WW2.
Judging from the history of MBT/WW2 development, both developpers are open to suggestions or critics - as long as it's not based on blanket statements and is supported by evidence. Some suggestions make it to the game engine or OOBs, some not, as it's impossible to please everyone. And if you don't like the way OOB's are set, you are provided with all you need to modify them and try out how does the change affect the "simulation".
I can tell you from personal experience that slight differences in ranges or accuracies of sniper rifles don't play much role unless you want to try to harass enemy at max range. And then usually the sniper falls prey to mortars after his few minutes of glory.

[Mobhack]

The best direct-fire anti-sniper bullet weapon in the game is another sniper. (Not a section with a sniper rifle in slot 4 ). Snipers enjoy no special advantages vs another specialist sniper, bar small size making initial hitting a tad less than a full sized section.

Next best is an MG unit class weapon, esp if firing from beyond the snipers own rifle range. MG unit classes have a few less problems with the snipers size, and if they miss, usually it is to the adjacent hex, so the splash will cause some "S" anyway (and share the joy with any neighbours he has, too! ).

Andy

[Marek_Tucan]

True about counter-sniper-snipers and MG's. However a little mortar barrage comes in hady anytime

[Charles22]

Mobhack said:
The best direct-fire anti-sniper bullet weapon in the game is another sniper. (Not a section with a sniper rifle in slot 4 ). Snipers enjoy no special advantages vs another specialist sniper, bar small size making initial hitting a tad less than a full sized section.

Next best is an MG unit class weapon, esp if firing from beyond the snipers own rifle range. MG unit classes have a few less problems with the snipers size, and if they miss, usually it is to the adjacent hex, so the splash will cause some "S" anyway (and share the joy with any neighbours he has, too! ).

Andy

What's the difference with the srifle in slot 4? I think there is a experience or morale check that is made for it to fire, which in slot 1 wouldn't be the case, but what else? I was wondering how well that works for the 10 man, or maybe it's 12 man brandenberger unit.

[Mobhack]

It is because this game is based on unit class mainly. There are very few real weapon classes (no WC_SMG, WC_PISTOL - just WT_PRIME_INF, WT_FLAME etc. In order to figure out if say an SMG is fired when deep in the guts of the code, you need to look at range, HE kill and so on, and figure it out from these data..)

A sniper rifle given to an ordinary rifle squad is different from a sniper with sniper rifle - the sniper unit class has a few privileges (if it is size 0!), when being shot at in cover beyond a couple of hexes, as well as its being size 0. But when a sniper unit class is sniping another sniper unit class - the target one does not get the sniper benefits (especially in cover etc). A squad with an added marksman's rifle will not have this. Thst is why sniper points are extra in the points calculator, for the extra built-in difficulties in killing them, if in cover, from direct-fire HE. (In area fire, they are just a regular size 0 squad).

An MMG given to a rifle unit, does not get the same benefits as one in a proper MG unit class, either (splash effects, a little extra ability on units in cover when firing direct fire, some lessening of a targeted sniper unit class if in cover ditto).

So - for snipers, in direct HE bullet fire, try to counter-snipe with a sniper of your own, or hose them down with an MMG section. Better yet, drop a shed load of mortars on them once located (even roughly).

They are also very vulnerable to close combat - so if you can close to 1 hex or 0 hex melee, they are toast.

Cheers
Andy

[Charles22]

Thanks. Yes I found the brandenburgers were 12 men. I don't intend to use sniper rifle equipped brandenburgers anytime soon, but their survivability makes their disadvantages in trying sniper fire considerably less meaningful. Even if the enemy isn't annoyed by them sniping, if they are seen alongside a bunch of other army units, then they will likely be targeted more simply because they cost more than the others.

I can't remember what the rating is called that the sniper can get a 10 rating for. Seems it was some form of fire control. The brandenburgers probably have a 2 rating in that department at best, but they do have excellent experience to slightly offset that. They're probably about 10pts higher in experience than the german regular wehrmacht sniper.

[Mobhack]

Tsk tsk...such namecalling!!! Hey EINSTEIN, SP:WAW came out BEFORE WinSPWW2. But they are BOTH based on Steel Panthers.
[/b]

Hmm. Unfortunately, you are under a misapprehension there.

Please read the Game Guide "Release History", for a more complete history of the various mods we started, before the TGN-later matrix guys developed their own game based on the SP3 game engine, which became SP:WaW.

Don is the original Steel Panthers modder, without whom there would have been no SP series code development. It all started with his "camo" icons for SP1 and SP2, that replaced the blue-grey and dark-brown icons of those games (remember them? - if not, find an SP1 screen shot).

I came in when the originator of the SP1 data editor (I forget who, after all this time) was not interested in continuing on with one for SP2, and he provided me with info on the OOB data file format. Mobhack started as a MSDOS programme written in Turbo Pascal, then I developed Kobhack for SP3.

Later, we got together to integrate new icons by poking about in the game EXE to convert the SP2 engine from modern to WW2 (since SP2 had the PBEM replay amongst other features which SP1 lacked and SSI were not going to develop SP1 further) and so SPCamo got started. It was our work that got SSI interested in releasing the actual source code, and without that, there would have been no development either by ourselves, or later, by TGN/matrix pursuing their own different route.

When we parted company from TGN, we decided to stick with the SP2 codebase. The TGN team wanted to do it their way and we, ours. Creative difference, but no real problem since there is/was room for both approaches. People produce many sets of tabletop rule sets, after all. The only "problem" with having the 2 engines is some folk who seem to insist that one should only have the one or other installed on their computer since it is the "best" in their opinion. Plenty of tabletop wargamers own and play several rulesets - yet even there there is a minority who, say stick to 7th edition ancients as the only "true" rules, like some form of quasi-religion. Those are generally called "fanboys", and are a tedious waste of time, whatever the game in question happens to be.

Cheers
Andy