Ideal 4x Travel

[AgentZero]

Randallw said:
while we're on the topic, does anyone know if the size limits for some wormholes actually counts? I've seen a few that say nothing more than, say 500kt, can pass through only to see larger ships have no problem.

No, the size limits don't matter. They were going to, so the descriptions were added, but the feature itself didn't make it.

[AstralWanderer]

The downside of "open travel" (GalCiv, Imperium Galactica, etc) is not just the difficulty of defense but how it encourages the use of "stacks'o'doom" (where an attacker piles every ship they have into a single massive fleet, capable of destroying anything else). GalCiv imposes (artificially low) fleet limits to counter this strategy but that has other downsides.

"Limited travel" systems (with warp points, warp lanes or MOO2's "committed movement" system where a fleet cannot be recalled until it has reached its destination) make the "doom stack" approach less effective since it is less able to arbitrarily switch targets, making it easier to counter.

A hybrid setup (where warp points could be used for fast but limited travel, normal space for slower, open travel) would be the most plausible system but I have only seen this implemented in the play-by-mail game Spiral Arm - here systems are connected by hyperspace portals but you can also move one fleet via "deep space movement" to any other system, albeit more slowly. This gives defensible chokepoints but also the possibility of surprise attacks on inner systems.

Warp point creation in SEV offers the option of surprise also but it is too easily countered (System Gravitational Shielding).

[Xrati]

If you use an open map, then you are playing a real strategy game. The universe is not 2D and the realism of a map that can emulate that is where the real challenges come in. A warp point system is very defined as you know where your enemy will come from and can have a 'welcoming' fleet. OR you can just mine the WP's and stack fleets on them. Even when you can open your own WP's later game tech prevents the use of them.

I think the best games are open maps and fleet restrictions. Lets face facts that one command ship could not possibly handle hundreds/thousand of smaller ships. Command has to be broken down into smaller control groups. A large attack fleet consisting of smaller groups make sense.

[aegisx]

What is the Stars! travel system like? I played that and VGA planets, but cannot remember.

It seems to me that the length of battles plays a major issue. If attacking a planet actually took a while, ridding the space around it of enemy ships first would be important. Most games now have battles usually ending pretty quick. In SE, after the WP, most battles will take place on the planets, as intercepting fleets is difficult due to quick movement speed.

[Xrati]

VGA was open map (if I remember right). Stars I'm not familiar with.

Remember that a simultaneous movement game in SE is different then a turn based game in SE. There are merits to both systems. Simultaneous movement is the better way to play multiplayer games. Turn based is good for playing against a computer opponent as the AI's just don't do well in simultaneous mode.

While most battles will be over key areas, the WAR will cover vast regions.

Remeber that Space is BIG!!! Ships are small...

[aegisx]

What is the technical difference between simultaneous and turn based mode? I have not played against the AI in a while

[Xrati]

simultaneous:
All orders are given and then carried out. Laying Sats., mines and loading transports along with fighters, are not open to mixing and managing their content. The computer will load a transport with no reguard to type or size of the units. So if you wanted to mix Armor with Infantry you could not specify the mix. If you wanted to lay Sat's out with say 1 Sensor and 49 Defense sat's, you'd have to load the exact amount in the transport.
Movement is carried out with certain functions being regulated to the AI as far as reaction goes. A ship given an attack order will do it's best to attack the target. A specific target must be specified. Battles are all run by the computer, so you will have to designate strategies to the AI to run for you.

Turn Based:
Lets you customize your loadouts and you can unload 1 unit at a time or launch. Since no other ships will be moving, you can bypass ships/fleets you don't want to engage. You can fight your tactical battles which gives you a huge advantage over the AI.

These are just a few of the differences. There are many more that I will let you find on your own. That's the best way to learn!!!

[Makinus]

aegisx said:
What is the Stars! travel system like? I played that and VGA planets, but cannot remember.

Stars! was open space travel, no warp points needed, travel speed according to engine tech and travel distance according to the fuel of the ship (the majority of the engines had also a low-speed no-fuel needed capacity)

It also had stargates that could be constructed in your star systems and allowed instant travel among 2 gates (with several types of gates with different distance/tonnage capacities)

[aegisx]

I do like the Stars system.... looks like it has a lot of potential for strategic depth.

[aegisx]

I have implemented a Stars type map to start with. Travel will be via Hyperspace. Initially, players will start off with a Hyperspace Accelerator in their home system. The Accelerator propels ships to FTL speeds, however the initial version will only propel small probe type objects and quite slowly.

Also, a version of a ship board Hyperspace Drive will be available, but it will be very large and only colony size ships (which will be quite expensive) can fit them. The technology the accelerators will be faster and handle large ships and the drive's will get smaller and faster.

Like Stars! I will use LY's as a measurement. I am still experimenting with speeds and map size. On a Large map size, assuming unlimited fuel, using startup technology I am thinking it should take ~100 turns to cross the map.