Minor German OOB error

[DRG]

Shan said:
While you're at it - German OOB, some minor points:

Unit 40 - StuGII G (also found under many more slots) - has a bow MG. Can anyone confirm that it really had one?
I would say: no - I could nowhere find a StuGIII version with a bow MG.

Hmmmmm....interesting. Yes, this does appear to be wrong and it appears to have been wrong for years. I will dig into this one a bit deeper as it's more than a little odd this would have been missed for nearly 10 years given the number of people willing to debate how many rivets should be in the sideskirts

( but stranger things have happened )

There is something about this though that nags at an old memory of this being discussed in the past but I will put it on the "to-do" list for investigation.

Don

[Shan]

It's not a big deal anyways. Overall the German OOB is probably about as correct as it will get...

About the StuGIII - if you consider the way it's built and meant to use, then I can't imagine how to fit a bow MG. They had only a 4-man crew, which means: no radio guy + no space on the rifgt side of the hull for a bow MG - this area was most likely used for ammo storage, given the cramped conditions inside. I am sure digging a bit would produce some inside photos or sketches to confirm this.

[JohnHale]

On the subject of StuGs: why do we have both a StuGIIIA and 'B in the game? They seem to be identical.

[DRG]

JohnHale said:

On the subject of StuGs: why do we have both a StuGIIIA and 'B in the game? They seem to be identical.

Please indicate what unit number these "StuGIIIA and 'B" are in the game. There are 10 "StuG IIIg" in the OOB's in three different unit classes none of which are identified as "A" or "B". If you can tell me the unit numbers it would be most helpful to me to tell you what the differences are ( but you might want to look close at the ammo loadouts )

Don

[AMX]

I believe he means units 35 and 320

Regarding the MG issue, maybe that's an attempt to represent the use of the gun shield?

[JohnHale]

Apologies for the oversight, Don: yes, it is the two items 35 and 320 which AMX has highlighted. Ammo loadouts and armour thickness are identical.

[Mobhack]

The service dates do differ.

Probably something that could have been covered by an a/b combined model as they are identical in game terms. However now they are in the database, deleting one or other would need a complete check of all existing scenarios to see if one or the other is used, as the removal of the thing may bork these.

About the only thing I could think of doing to these (if anything), is to make the B model an X0 radio code (common) and leave the A model with an X1 (less common) radio code.

Cheers
Andy

[CharlesM]

The MG on the StuG II Ausf. G fired throuh the mantlet, and I have photos of vehicles with these fitted into the Saukopfblende (sow's head mantlet). Off-hand I cannot remember whether the modification was ever made on the composite mantlets made from flat plates. I'll check. It was Bob McNamara who spotted this feature from photos he had of StuG III Gs.

[TreadHead]

Yes, a block-style mantlet was produced with a coaxial MG for the mid-production StuG III Ausf G and was introduced in June '44. And a Saukopfblend with coaxial MG was introduced in Oct '44 on the late production vehicles. There is a more lengthy discussion on this in the thread "Stug AAMG's???".

Ross

[CharlesM]

Thanks. I did some checking. Photos of the Saukopf-mounted MG are easy enough to come by; those used in the composite mantlet less so; the one posted on the AAMG discussion is one of the few I've seen. In the Opsrey on the later StuG III and IV, Tom Jentz states that the co-ax only began to be fitted into the Saukopfblende in the Spring of 1944.