In Review: Best Fleet Strategy

[Solipsis]

Actually, the concept of 'Ubermensch' was developed by late 19th century philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. He believed that the Christian view of the world, and it's morals, were almost explicitly designed to hold back any man that would lay claim to something greater than the usual goals people aspire to. In Nietzsche's view, Christianity thus was a religion of the weak, praising 'unnatural' actions such as presenting the other cheek. Following, one of his goals was the creation of a new set of morals, that would embrace the concept of the Ubermensch and encourage him to step forward. A perfect example of an Ubermensch such as Nietzsche sees him is Napoleon Bonaparte, who strived to conquer all of Europe ( not really an everyday goal eh : ) ). It must be said that his legacy has been perverted by the Nazi's, since Nietzsche based his concept of the Ubermensch on a person's qualities and achievements, not race or skin colour. Sorry bout the rant : )

[PvK]

quote:

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Originally posted by GUTB:
So my effective firepower is cut in half...but theoreticaly...SO WHAT! You STILL CANNOT HOPE TO HIT ME so what should it matter if I have to spend twice the number of turns crushing you? And then I get 6 movement (7 with propulsion expert) plus three movement in combat.

I will have to test this.

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LOL, yes you will have to test it, and notice that you are getting hit. Oh noooo...

P.S. No one with speed 3 has the initiative.

[ 22 March 2002: Message edited by: PvK ]

[tesco samoa]

GUTB Please post the first 25 to 30 turns of your game playing so we can see this in action. Right now only you believe in what your saying.... Just prove it to us. Solipsis come on over to the ramble thread and join in there.... (Bar and grill one ) Nice to meet you.

[Mordante]

I think people have more or less covered the flaws in this. Glad its evolved from speed 3 dominate the sector though ... Scary to think how many mines a homeworld can be made in the time it takes that "uber-fleet" to travel from one system to the next.

Interesting I did try something somewhat simular although far more costly in the Last pbw game I played in. Was religious with obscene defence bonues and superior propulsion (racial pick)

Adding max ECM+race bonus+Stealh and Scattering+20 fleet experience did make my ships fairly unhittable at range 8 (I was using late tech anti protons) and of course the talisman made all of mine hit.

But ... I think some of their attacks did hit ... is there a 1% minimum chance?

Back to the Uber Fleet however ... surely its obvious that its easy to make more missile ships that 1 lousy pds a vessel will cope with (or even missile platforms come to that) ...

Ah well,

Btw ... anyone know whats up with PBW this morning ?

[geoschmo]

Ok, I have done some real game (not simulator) testing of the "Uber-Munchkin" strategy. As expected it does not quite live up to it's high expectations.

First of all, there is no way to get 30% defesive characteristic. It tops out at 25. I created an uber race with bezerkers, and +25% defense.

For my control race I used a straight default, no advantages or disadvatages.

I decided to handicap myself and not use seekers, fighters, mines or organic armor ramming ships.

I calculated the amount of research points required to get DUC IV, PDC III, and ECM I. With the same number of research points my control race could get Destroyers, Combat Sensors I, and DUC III. This is what I designed my munchkin killers with. My destroyers could hold 6 DUC III's.

In one on one comabt the destoyers decimated the escorts. 9 kills to 1. The one escort that survived is what I would call heavily damaged. (more than 50%) Of the 9 frigates that won their battles, only 2 were heavily damaged.

In fleet action, 10 vessels per side, once again the destoryers won convincingly. In several combats, the best the escorts could manage was 2 kills and 8 heavily damaged. And that I consider a statistical fluke, because most of the results were at the other extreme end, with most or all of the escorts killed, and mild damage to the destroyer fleet.

The only positive point to this strategy is that the escorts can be built fast. One per turn on the homeworld. The frigates take two turns. However the munchkins need this as because even with a 4 to 3 numerical disadvantage, the destoryers come out on top the large majority of combats. It's only when the escorts can acheive a 2-1 numerical advantage do they start winning consistantly.

I must point out that this test was done using the 6 engine, 1 DUC IV Version of the Uber-Munchkin. I don't consideer the 3 engine Version even a legitimate option. They would have more firepower, but it would take so long to get a decent fleet to the enemy's worlds, they would have battle cruisers waiting for you.

So even without all the creative counters proposed, this can be defeated by a low tech "brute force" defense.

Geoschmo

[ 22 March 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[oleg]

DUC can be made obsolete by crystal armor.
Destroyer with 4 CA-I and shield (any level)
negates 40 damage points per shot.
That is DUC IV. One such destroyer can decimate
an infinite number of "uber-escorts". Granted, it has room for just one weapon, but who needs more when you are impregnable ?

[LGM]

quote:

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Originally posted by oleg:
DUC can be made obsolete by crystal armor.
Destroyer with 4 CA-I and shield (any level)
negates 40 damage points per shot.
That is DUC IV. One such destroyer can decimate
an infinite number of "uber-escorts". Granted, it has room for just one weapon, but who needs more when you are impregnable ?

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Ships with only one weapon cannot do much to repel a Ramming attacker. A fleet of uber-escorts can ram the Destroyer into oblivion with about two or three rams.