MA Marignon

[Raymo]

Hi all,

Thx for the interesting posts.

I am struggling with Marignon myself. Other than the flagellants, the upkeep and resource costs seem very high. The other problem is my old mages keep dying constantly.

What do Marignon players think of using the Phoenix as a Marignon Pretender?

---Ray

[Sir_Dr_D]

The phoenix has a great potential with margnon. The fire bless will be great for flagellants, and while giving it enough air magic to mostly make boosters, you are giving your flagellants a much needed air bless at the same time.

Marginon is a good nation because it has a lot of diversity, to help it deal with almost any situation. It has xbows, knights, soldiers with sheilds, soldiers with big weapons, and sacreds to give an extra impact. And Late game they have the very usefull angels.

[vfb]

Raymo said:
Hi all,

Thx for the interesting posts.

I am struggling with Marignon myself. Other than the flagellants, the upkeep and resource costs seem very high. The other problem is my old mages keep dying constantly.

---Ray

A growth scale should help with your mages, but just don't make too many Grand Masters. You could try a communion of Witch Hunters, with one cast of Phoenix power and Power of the Spheres by communion masters, to get F4 on all your slaves. That's plenty for some nasty falling fires.

Maybe script something like this:

Slave, Fire Darts, Falling Fires x 3, spells
Slave, Fire Darts, Falling Fires x 3, spells
Slave, Fire Darts, Falling Fires x 3, spells
Slave, Fire Darts, Falling Fires x 3, spells
...
Slave, Fire Darts, Falling Fires x 3, spells
Master, Power of the Spheres, Body Ethereal, ...
Master, Phoenix Power, Personal Luck, ...

[parcelt]

The problem I have seen with Marignon in MP is their vulnerability to an early rush (I have been on both ends of this stick).

Many good long-term Marignon strategies call for rainbow pretenders and/or good scales. Their sacreds are not that strong as to make them a real bless / rush nation. Taking a strong bless may get them to survive the early game, but then takes its toll later on since you didn't spend points on scales and magic diversity. So then you're stuck in mid-game with (at best) average scales / magic diversity, old mages, and blessed but still average sacreds.

Their problems are magnified in hard research games as some of their more obvious strenghts lie in the higher evocation/conjuration paths.

I have given up on finding a coherent optimal strategy that helps them through all stages of the game - it's impossible. The best thing seems to be taking a gamble for the early game and bet on a lucky starting position with no rush-neighbours, allowing you to research your way safely into midgame. Once you get there with your good scales/magic, things change and you could quickly become very strong indeed, but its a gamble as you can easily be killed in the early phase.

Taking an awake SC pretender or a strong bless for your sacreds may or may not save you against an aggresive early rush. But then you will most likely die in midgame because of the lack of magic/scales.

Thougher choices then faced by many other nations. Have made me turn away from Marignon for a while now.

[Zeldor]

parcelt:

But that is true for almost every nation that does not have really strong rush troops, including TC, C'tis and many many others. That's why Arco is so good - early elephants and late mages.

[parcelt]

I agree that it's true to a greater or lesser extent for a lot nations. What it comes down to is trade-offs, making though choices, but also trying to find some neutralizing factors - e.g. taking death scales when playing C'tis can free up points, you don't really have that option with Marignon.

I guess I just meant to say that in my experience the choices and trade-offs for Marignon just always seem a lot harder than for most other nations, and always seem to leave you more vulnerable on some aspect.

[Zeldor]

parcelt:

MA C'tis and death scale? Their Miasma dominion does not kill his own people. And he cannot reanimate any undead.

[Sir_Dr_D]

A bless usually means you can expand faster, which usually means that you are less likely to be targeted with a bless rush. You can also defend against a bless rush with xbows + flaming arrows.