Proportions mod 1.5.2 released (and web page)

[ZeroAdunn]

Hey man, I would just like to say thanks for the mod, it is one of my Favorites, right next to the Pirates & Nomads mod, it makes SEIV a lot more like what I want it o be.

I was wondering about ship construction though, this is something that has bothered me from the beginning. Shouldn't it be quicker to build ships at an orbital spaceyard?

[PvK]

Thanks for the feedback, ZeroAdunn!

Do you mean faster, in absolute terms, or "faster than on a planet"?

If you mean the latter, then I can see arguments from both sides. In Proportions, you do have to have 100 million people (and a spaceyard) on a planet before the planetary rate reaches the rate of an orbital yard (and 100M people can take some effort to achieve on a colony).

In a yard in space, you wouldn't have to get the completed ship into orbit, but you would have to get the materials there, probably work in a weightless vaccuum (which has both pros and cons), and are isolated from planetary infrastructure support, and so on. I'd say it was up to a lot of technical details and could go either way.

I figure a developed planet like a homeworld should have a higher rate than a single orbital yard.

So in Proportions, the planetary rate, once the planet is developed (represented semi-abstractly by population), includes being able to multi-task the construction in a way that has to be abstracted since there can only be one planetary queue in the game. Meanwhile, you can build as many orbital shipyards as you want, so in that sense, orbital can always out-produce planetary, even if not in a one-on-one comparison.

PvK

[Aub]

PvK,

there is something I'm missing about Self-Defense cannons. It looks like they require the same tech as Point-Defense cannons, cost only marginally less (e.g. 15 vs 20 tons) and are almost useless against fighters (at least in multiplayer). And if that's not enough, they lack the 70% bonus PD cannons have.

What is the reason to install them then? It looks like I'm better off with the original point-defense cannons!

Now what did I miss?

Aub

[PvK]

That's about right, Aub. They also cost half as much, and I will likely be adjusting the to-hit mods and size (probably to 10kt) more for 1.6.

The idea is that sometimes you want an important ship, base, or planet to protect only itself. The short range in this case is something you want, because it prevents non-essential targets from drawing your defenses away. Even with the +70 PDC, fighters in Proportions will often be missed.

PvK

quote:

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Originally posted by Aub:
PvK,

there is something I'm missing about Self-Defense cannons. It looks like they require the same tech as Point-Defense cannons, cost only marginally less (e.g. 15 vs 20 tons) and are almost useless against fighters (at least in multiplayer). And if that's not enough, they lack the 70% bonus PD cannons have.

What is the reason to install them then? It looks like I'm better off with the original point-defense cannons!

Now what did I miss?

Aub

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[travislp]

Hey, love the mod. I have one question though. How did you get the default facilities changed to use your culture centers instead of the normal facilities

[PvK]

Thanks travislp!

If you look at the AI files for facility construction, you will find a table I made in the help section at the top. What I did was to take a list of components that had little or no effect when added to facilities (and are not used on existing facilities), and then use them as identifying abilities that tell the AI what to build on planets. That way, it doesn't decide that cultural centers are the best for everything, and embark on 400-year development projects that consume all their resources, like in Version 1.4 and earlier.

PvK

[oleg]

PvK, thank you very much for this mod !

I tried the mod first time yesterday and I am now totally enchanted by it !

This is indeed how SEIV should be made in the first place, IMHO.

The mod is so good and so revolutionary that I want to suggest to change the mod name to something more catchy, like "real universe mod", "SEIV as it should be", etc.

Other mods, like P&N or Devnulmod, have nice and inventive ship components and facilities but none comes even close to the fantastic change in game play provided by Proportions mod.

You mentioned in mod info that this mod is not good for single player because AI is not adapted to it. However, I think that with some AI tweaks it can be actually made much more chalenging than even TDM-Modpac.

Just consider what happens in "normal" SEIV when you play against, for example, medium-bonus AI.
At first, AI has an edge due to the 3X bonus to production, science and constraction. But soon enough, more efficient expansion and build up by human player eradicates this advantage. This is may not be true in "propotions". Home worlds are extremely important. Even after human player colonize dozens or so worlds, homeworld still provide you the major chunk of production and science. It means that even after many years and frantic build-up by human player, 3X AI bus applied to its homeworld, should still gives AI a big edge. I like it, I really, really like it.

The only problem is how to make AI to protect homeworld at all cost. There was a thread some time ago about planetary defence and how to beef it up. There were some very good ideas posted, as I remember.

There are some good weapon changes in this mod. I certainly welcome better torpedoes. However, it made some nice racial weapons next to useless. For exapmle, temporal canons and high-energy magnifiers are completely inferior to improved quantum torpedoes and WMG.

Overall, crystalline trait needs either decrease in cost or ehhanced weapons/facilities. The planetary development is now much more important and while organic (replicant center), temporal (temporal space yard) and religious (nature shrine) help you, crystalline gives you nothing in this respect. Psychic may need some adjustments too.

Cheers and thank you very much again for this mod.

[ 25 March 2002: Message edited by: oleg ]

[ 25 March 2002: Message edited by: oleg ]