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January 30th, 2008, 03:30 PM
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Shrapnel Fanatic
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Re: New Russian OOB (or SPR OOB)
Let's keep it short and simple. It makes it easier to translate
Ths source you quoted at the start agrees with all other data I have for that weapon. The effective range for the B-11 is 450 metres and the penetration is 380mm and effective range is the range we've used, or tried to use whenever possible, for all RCL's in the game.
Are you saying all the info on the B-11 available in English is wrong ?
Don
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January 30th, 2008, 03:43 PM
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Sergeant
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kazakstan
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Re: New Russian OOB (or SPR OOB)
I have shown you the table of shooting for a gun which stood out in army in hands crew this gun. What can be even more demonstrative than the instruction?
I speak about that that as you have told earlier, that probably there is some misunderstanding of the given information or difficulty of translate. I speak that it is impossible for instructions of range of shooting of guns B-10, B-11 and SPG-9 to use - data of range of a direct shot. These guns have a sight - with which help they can shoot on the distances specified by me.
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January 30th, 2008, 03:58 PM
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Sergeant
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kazakstan
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Re: New Russian OOB (or SPR OOB)
There was time when all English-speaking editions a rocket 9A4172 Vikhr - named a rocket 9M120. It was an error. And now many editions about it have written. But this modern weapon and it is interesting to people. And here RCL guns of manufacture of the USSR of 1954 - very few people now interest. I have only resulted the real table of shooting on which tipper-of of a gun could destroy the tank.
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January 30th, 2008, 04:43 PM
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Shrapnel Fanatic
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Re: New Russian OOB (or SPR OOB)
Showing me scans of a manual I can just barely read isn't very helpful, is it ?
The wrong name of ATGM and the range and penetration of a recoilless rifle have little in common. As you noted, the RCL has been around for years. It's difficult to believe that the known effective range for that weapon could be that far out given that to GET an " effective range " would require field testing and since the B11 has been around for 50+ years some testing must have been done to get that "effective " range
Yes?
Now, Andy and I have discussed this weapon in the past and questioned it's low range but every piece of info we can dig up ( and read ! ) gives the same results. The maximum AIMED range we have matches your info almost exactly. Where we diverge is in the effective range and as I said, that's the range we have been using for those weapons not the maximum range you can actually point and fire it.
Those scans, if I understood correctly what I could read, shows that weapon had a max range or 1430 m for the HEAT round. "which tipper-of a gun ( gun aimer ) could destroy the tank."
OK, lets assume for a minute that 1430m is correct and all the other info about "effective" range of 450m is wrong... even if we do accept that is the maximum range for that weapon that number translates to 28 hexes in game terms not 30.
Consider also..... maybe nobody could actually hit anything with it reliably beyond 450 metres despite what the manual says you should be able to do. EVERY army is guilty of that .
Also, you have 30 for a penetration for HEAT.... all the numbers we have shows 38. Where did 30 penetration come from ?
Don
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January 31st, 2008, 12:07 PM
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Shrapnel Fanatic
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Re: New Russian OOB (or SPR OOB)
Quote:
KraMax said:Here:
The second line - 450 metres - range of a direct shot
The fourth line - initial speed of flight HEAT of a shell - 400 metres per second
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And there's that 450m number again. It does keep popping up over and over. 
Quote:
KraMax said:
Even our data here have an error - HEAT penetration shell B-11 should be even less 290mm:
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There will always be conflicting information even from the best source. Why assume that since this website gives a 29cm penetration for that weapon that it's correct and the previous info you had was wrong ? As I have said, western sources give that weapon a much higher penetration. Why ? I really don't know. I can only use the info I have and when there is conflict go with whatever I feel is more likely. To do the type of research to make ( almost ) everyone happy with these OOB's would require a staff the size of Janes !
This is why OOB work , no matter how well researched, will never be completely free of "controversy" even with 50 year old weapons systems. It's why any of us can only guess at the numbers we use in the OOB's for modern weapons and who knows, maybe 50 years from now someone might actually figure out what the correct numbers should be. 
Don |
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