Mod: Even Weirder Worlds *** Now 1.02

[lexicat]

Hey Phlagm,

I have an idea for the recombobulator. It might suffer from memory issues with the game engine, BUT:

instead of trying to remove a random object, remove _all_ objects by name:

REMV it_torc.ini
etc...

then, follow this with some number of new items:
ITMS 2 tech
ITMS 1 loot
etc...

just an idea.

You could probably fiddle with conditionals and a few different versions of the quest page that remove/add different items. For example, one page might remove all weapons, and add a bunch of life forms. You get the drift. . .

Lexicat

[Phlagm]

The problem is that REMV has to have a specific item name. It won't take a random thing. If you do THIF or SABT, the item will pop up elsewhere inexplicably.

What ends up happening, is that none of these things are too terrible in and of themselves, but by the time you get to soemthign that will work, it practically resembles my idea in no way, and no longer seems fun or useful.

I just wanted an item that would remove an item, and give you another, and occaisionally do additional quirky things. i think it could be done extremely simply, but it'd have to be in the coding.

I've actually gotten a little disillusioned because there is this bizarre roof I've hit with the races. Now when I add one, I kill another, and that means that I'm never actually adding any races.

Seen the Cambrians lately?

[lexicat]

right, i noticed the cambrians' absence. i reshuffled the names of all the races in quest.ini to alphabetical order (except for terran which cam first), now cambrians show up, but other races are acting weird (i don't actually encounter urluquai or zorg, and automatically conquer their homeworlds when i stumble across them).

grumble.

[Phlagm]

I haven't done much with it but become exasperated. If i dramatically increase the numbers that should be showing up, nothing happens. I started experimenting with making small quests that have nothing but a planet with an item on it and a cambrian fleet so that you can occasionally see one or two in the game, but those planets end up just having the item and no fleet 90% of the time. Clearly there is some cap there, but it won't respond to anything I do.

I'll post a spoiler here about something I have half-done, but probably won't finish.

I was never able to get a decent mainquest working for the corrupted Tan Ru. Every trick I tried to make it not look like a Ravian, Kawangi, or Primordius clone failed spectacularly. I am somewhat proud of my later Osiris mainquest, which is a blatant kawangi/Ravian clone, but with a catch on the beginning. Killing the thing is just a formality. Plus, I get a kick out of how well the locust swarm worked out.

My other quest was going to be related to the sphyrna. I actually have 2 more ships completed for that race, and something that I thought was pretty nifty. I made each of those ships with great blobs of alien flesh growing on them. The mainquest was to be where you encounter either the lone sphyrna ship that got away from this infestation and then they set about trying to kill you even as they absorb other races. (I was even thinking about making the klakar captain/homeworld become corrupted, the 2nd in command kills him, takes control of the ship and joins you. So you'd be fighting these infested fleets and trying to save the Glory system from this spreading menace.

The cool part was that to destroy one of these ships, you first blow off the goo (which attacks in its own way), which leaves splatters and scorch marks on the ship, and then it tries to kill you with whatever conventional weapons you just freed up.

But I don't want to invest any more time if there's a good chance it's just going to not work. It really sucks too, because I had plans to reintroduce 3 more races from ESAIS also: Wraiths, Silikites, and Dolomar. I mean I could add them all in the combat simulator, but that just makes me want to cry. The worst part is that having to cook up weapons for alien races is my main motivation for putting weird not weapons in the game.

[Alphasite]

I've been looking forward to updates and I can understand your frustration. Have you tried sending email to the developers about these issues?

[chabex]

Phlagm: I know little about programming and etc so sorry if it is dumm what I say, but I have an idea (or question). If you can not throw everything in at the same time in the game is it possible to put them in in packs?
Explanation: If there would be a mod called Even Weirder PARALELL Worlds :-D could you you put All the races, thingies, weapons, quests in the database BUT only use randomly as much as the cap allows? And at some time in the game you would jump into a special Black Hole and whooss! There is a another but paralell universe. For fun and continuation you could keep those races where you have some quests but all the others would be different (again: as much as the cap allows).
So whaddayasay?

[charliecooper]

If the core of this game just changed a little or included a few more options, it could open so many more possibilities.

I will wait.

[lexicat]

Phlagm,

Well you are really inspiring in what you have provided so far. I myself have been frustrated, but have produced nothing nearly as much as you.

Ok, cat out of bag: I have been writing extra Esmerelda quests. I noticed that she was (a) really annoying to encounter, and (b) that it became really important to take her showing up into account. So I made a few quests that really make her dangerous (and have ideas for more). (and I confess that while I hacked WW, I usually just hack EWW… heh).

I've got the basic skeleton of of the quests working, but there's important subtleties that just fail with the quest engine (inconsistencies in break and endquest, in order of evaluation of page blocks, in sequential popups, etc.).

I really hope that you do write Fingers and Ripcord and (respectfully) persuade them that their excellent game could be improved.

Cheerio,
Lexicat

[clomaka]

Keep going w. the awesome content Phlagm! Your stuff was one of the main reason why I decided to buy WW. You could, albeit painfully, rip out some of the standard races to make room for yours; or perhaps make the sequel, where you focus more on the stories of fewer (but more expanded/developed) races.

Either way is not optimal, and so much more could be done if more of the code was accesable. In the meantime, hang in there!

[Phlagm]

I'm not sure how likely it is that there will be another major patch. My problems with the modding are significant enough that I don't think they are readily fixable with a small patch. My primary issue is with the evaluation of conditions. So many just don't evaluate except in one particular circumstance, and that is what makes this game difficult to mod. I find that if you do a total conversion, things work out well because you can reuse the same quests in different clothes, but you often can't easily get conditions to evaluate under circumstances other than how they already show up in the standard game. There are also issues with inconsistency in how rules are applied as well. Finally, there are a things that just aren't exhaustive. For example, you can't take an enemy and make them neutral. You can THIF or SABT a random item, but you just can't remove one.

While the ship and weapons modding present their own difficulties--You would not believe the amount of effort that went into getting the minefield thing up to about 80% of where I really wanted it--they're mostly pretty good and flexible. The quest system is much more complex, and that's the place where you find the most holes. That's also the place where you have the opportunity to truly come up with something unique.

I would be happy to work with other modders here to develop a more comprehensive list of these kinds of stumbling blocks. I can imagine that making a game complex and yet moddable isn't something that can be done flawlessly without some kind of input from the community. You just never know what kind of nutty things people are going to try to bend over backward to do. I am realistic and know that there may be a significant portion that just can't readily be addressed in a financially feasible way. On the other hand, if we could fix a bunch of those things, I think the modding community would explode. If I could figure out why the hell races won't load beyond a number much smaller than what is listed as the max, I would have at least 4 more in the game.

These grumblings aside, it's a spectacular game, and I would love the opportunity to work on some more mods for it.