LA Ermor's Dominion Change in 3.15...

[Kristoffer O]

Agrajag said:
In dom2 I always took Turmoil-3,Sloth-3,Death-3,Cold-3,Luck-3 (and magic depending on strategy), so I don't see that as changing much
And besides, it is being multiplied by 10, yes, but from what number exactly?
My tests indicate that their death dominion now kills 5% of the population per candle (and that population death occurs after dominion spread)
IIRC that's the same number it was in dom2.

Correct. Domkill is at dom2 levels again. Before the fix ermor had lower domkill than LA R'lyeh, which is silly. You could practically run Ermor as an ordinary gold based nation, which is quite unthematic.

Ermor is supposed to destroy civilizations, not build them. The lands of Ermor shall be barren and dead.
Scourge of the world, they shall have no friends.

[Amhazair]

I haven't played Ermor yet, so I'm not sure about balance considerations. If it hits them to hard something might have to be done to compensate. But I've allways thought it silly that the nation that should have the least money was the one that had a fort and a temple in every province, so at least from that point of view I applaud the change.

[B0rsuk]

Hey, correct me if I'm wrong.

Growth scale gives +0.2% population per turn. This means +0.6% at Growth3 . I'm not sure, but I think there's no upper cap for province, no environment capacity. Some terrains just tend to start with more people than others, for example Swamp or Wasteland seems to have lower initial population. But from that point it's only affected by Death/Growth scale.

Apparently some nations (or their dominion) kills civilian population at alarming rate. There's pretty much no way of restoring that population reliably. That +0.6% from growth will take you nowhere. This is, I believe, consistent with the theme of the game (the end days, god wars, mortals die by thousands...). But there seems to be a consensus that Growth scale is unusually bad. There's an opportunity to make it better by simulating (simplified) laws of ecology.
How about this: Growth scale effect is 5x higher (or fixed at certain number) for provinces having population of 2000 or less. For provinces 2000-4000 , the multiplier would be 3x instead (3x of usual 0.6%). This is to simulate the fact that, in ecology (especially for animals, which are almost exlusively hunters and gatherers) population growth booms initially, and slows down as it reaches environment capacity.

What do you think about it ? This way, Growth scale could be used to at least partially regrow provinces devastated by Ermor dominion. It's not like Growth scale is very useful at the moment...

[otthegreat]

B0rsuk said:
Hey, correct me if I'm wrong.

Growth scale gives +0.2% population per turn. This means +0.6% at Growth3 . I'm not sure, but I think there's no upper cap for province, no environment capacity. Some terrains just tend to start with more people than others, for example Swamp or Wasteland seems to have lower initial population. But from that point it's only affected by Death/Growth scale.

Apparently some nations (or their dominion) kills civilian population at alarming rate. There's pretty much no way of restoring that population reliably. That +0.6% from growth will take you nowhere. This is, I believe, consistent with the theme of the game (the end days, god wars, mortals die by thousands...). But there seems to be a consensus that Growth scale is unusually bad. There's an opportunity to make it better by simulating (simplified) laws of ecology.
How about this: Growth scale effect is 5x higher (or fixed at certain number) for provinces having population of 2000 or less. For provinces 2000-4000 , the multiplier would be 3x instead (3x of usual 0.6%). This is to simulate the fact that, in ecology (especially for animals, which are almost exlusively hunters and gatherers) population growth booms initially, and slows down as it reaches environment capacity.

What do you think about it ? This way, Growth scale could be used to at least partially regrow provinces devastated by Ermor dominion. It's not like Growth scale is very useful at the moment...

I know this was mentioned a while back but I think it should get more attention. I agree that there should be a way to partially regrow devastated provinces and growth scale is probably the best choice. I believe that in nature, populations grow in a kind of "S" curve - the growth rate increasing exponentially before slowing down again and finally stopping when it reaches a ceiling determined by the environment. It would be interesting if there was a way to include this in dominions.

Now that I think of it though, games don't last very long, only a few years, so a model of long term growth like this might not be realistic after all. Just some thoughts.

[Agrajag]

Growth in dominions is exponential.
It's just that even with growth-3 it's just 1.006^n

[vfb]

It would be cool if different nations had different base growth. Humans would be pretty high, Heims would be bad, Abysia and Fomoria and Agartha would be dismal. Caelum and C'tis could get a surge of growth only in the spring.

[OmikronWarrior]

Agrajag said:
Growth in dominions is exponential.
It's just that even with growth-3 it's just 1.006^n

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...b=5&o=&fpart=1

The above link is where I ran the numbers on growth and death domains and calculated the aggregate money changes over so many turns. First off, the extra 2% per tick of growth of money you make per turn is not insignificant. Secondly, Growth in the long run will equal order for as a money maker, with the break even point being around turn 42 for growth-3. Third, the real strength of growth as a money maker is to combine it with order-3. Then all the multipliers (21% for order, 6% for growth, and exponential population growth) combine for the biggest pay out in Dom3.

Don't get me wrong, early expansion is important than late game bounties, but its not something to be dismissed either.

[Zeldor]

OmikronWarrior:

But you need to control that province for so many turns. AND have your dominion [prbaobly at least str 3-5] all the time. So that 42 turns is for capitol only.

I wish growth effect was 2-5 times bigger but with no income boost. Just boost by population growth. It could maybe also make population destroying spells weaker.

[B0rsuk]

otthegreat said:
I believe that in nature, populations grow in a kind of "S" curve - the growth rate increasing exponentially before slowing down again and finally stopping when it reaches a ceiling determined by the environment. It would be interesting if there was a way to include this in dominions.

Now that I think of it though, games don't last very long, only a few years, so a model of long term growth like this might not be realistic after all. Just some thoughts.

It's called 'bell curve' .
Why not realistic ? It's a matter of massaging the numbers until it's playable. Currently Growth scale is pretty much unplayable. Supply was nicely balanced in Dom2, I had to actually look before stepping into a mountain or wasteland. Now I rarely bother.

[Agrajag]

B0rsuk said:

It's called 'bell curve' .

The "S" curve he mentioned was regarding the total population. Obviously, total population over time does not follow a bell curve.
The case he described does "contain" a bell curve, with "growth rate over time" following a bell-like curve.