New Russian OOB (or SPR OOB)

[Weasel]

This OOB sounds very interesting but I am a bit concerned if it will totally mess up the game or if it is totally balanced. Just reading the posts on the B11 makes it sound like RR are going to be shooting down range 4000m! Since a HEAT round doesn't loose penetration over distance that would be a hell of a thing, who needs tanks?

Can the OOB be used without the pick lists if you never play against the AI?

Which version of the OOB is correct, the one on page 1? I noticed you made numerous changes so I want to make sure I check out the updated version.

[KraMax]

I welcome you Weasel.

Last version of our OOB it is possible to download here:
www.pecypc.kz/kramax/obat011.obf

You can not download Picklist files if you are not going to play against the computer (USSR/Russia).

Best regards.

[Weasel]

KraMax said:
I welcome you Weasel.

Last version of our OOB it is possible to download here:
www.pecypc.kz/kramax/obat011.obf

You can not download Picklist files if you are not going to play against the computer (USSR/Russia).

Best regards.

That link gives me this:




И|©БMMTTш&#1096

etc. etc. etc, etc, etc


EDITED ---One line would have been sufficient you make your point

[thatguy96]

Just do right click, save as. Its the actual file, not an archive.

[KraMax]

Weasel said:


That link gives me this:




И|©БMMTTш&#1096

etc. etc. etc, etc, etc


EDITED ---One line would have been sufficient you make your point

new link for archive:
www.pecypc.kz/kramax/obat011.zip

[KraMax]

Weasel said:
This OOB sounds very interesting but I am a bit concerned if it will totally mess up the game or if it is totally balanced. Just reading the posts on the B11 makes it sound like RR are going to be shooting down range 4000m! Since a HEAT round doesn't loose penetration over distance that would be a hell of a thing, who needs tanks?

Can the OOB be used without the pick lists if you never play against the AI?

Which version of the OOB is correct, the one on page 1? I noticed you made numerous changes so I want to make sure I check out the updated version.

No. B11 cannot shoot HEAT shells on a distance of 4000 metres. Load our OOB and you will see that there costs normal - a real distance.
We created our OOB - that it has shown real arms and structures of our armies. We have tried to make so that we OOB has not destroyed the majority of scenarios for this game. Scenarios are strongly connected with slots the weapon - and we have tried not to change a weapon site (by council DRG), but we had to clean all nonexistent weapon or shells (for example RPG-1). Also we have cleaned weapon duplicates. We have specified the exact given receipts of arms in our armies (when we had data about the beginning a batch production - we used these data). I ask to pay your attention that we not only improved our arms, but also worsened it is since we did it only because of real data. On all our changes in game at us is link and data (unfortunately basically in Russian). We also asked developers to include in game new icons our military technics, drawn PlasmaKrab, have given new photos of units.
Work on our OOB is not finished yet - now we search for the errors and discrepancies. We have spent set of tests with our OOB - and we can tell that it does not break balance of game.
As soon as at us will be more time - we will necessarily tell more about our changes, but many of these changes are obvious also you can see them if will download and will try our OOB.

Sorry for my bad English.

[DRG]

You do love to bring up the RPG-1 don't you ?

I have seen reports that Russia kept captured stocks of Panzerfausts available after the end of WW2 until the RPG-2 started to be produced. I personally did not add the "RPG-1 " to the Russian OOB but there IS info available about it. Russian troops were well known for using captured Panzerfausts during the war and it's not the least bit of a stretch to imagine they may have been kept around after the war as there were no other Infantry AT weapons of it's kind available.

If you Google "RPG-1" "Panzerfaust". you will find quite a number of hits

and you will find at --- http://www.battlefield.ru/cgi-bin/ik...=Print;f=2;t=6 quotes as .....

For example Zaloga, in his book "The Red Army of the Great Patriotic War 1941-5" (Osprey) says:
Quote

The Red Army captured large stocks of Panzerfaust on their advance west, and also began manufacturing a copy as the RPG-1

and it was on the strength of information like this that the "RPG-1" was added.

But here's an alternate opinion on the matter from the same message board

I know an American author who is researching this topic for an upcoming work. So far he has found no primary historical evidence that the RPG-1 was a Panzerfaust copy (of any model), nor any evidence that the Red Army manufactured the Panzerfaust under any name.

He believes that the Panzerfausts carried by Soviet soldiers in pictures are from captured stocks (the U.S. 82nd Airborne Division was also known to carry numbers of captured Panzerfausts). Furthermore he believes that the RPG-1 was wholly a Soviet design. It may have benefited from the study of captured Panzerfaust 150 and 250, but it was not a copy.

Here's a further quote on that line of thinking from http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-149364162.html

The Soviets were quick to grasp the potential of a simple, light, easily fired grenade launcher, and by 1944 were working on what was to become the RPG-1, whose 70mm rocket could defeat 150mm of RHA at an effective range of 75 meters, two and a half times that of the Panzerfaust. Due to difficulties with the fuse mechanism and the propellant charge in extreme seasonal climates, however, the RPG-1 was never produced in quantity, and once these issues were resolved the product improvements were applied to the RPG-2 (Figure 2), which entered Soviet service in 1949. The operation of the RPG-2 was easy for soldiers to learn, and its penetration of 200mm RHA and its effective range of 150 meters--twice that of the RPG-1--were significant improvements over its predecessor's performance. With its HEAT warhead and solid-propellant fuel, this was the first antitank weapon to be encountered in large numbers by U.S. forces during the Vietnam War.

"never produced in quantity" is quite a bit different than " nonexistent weapon or shells (for example RPG-1)"

Is it ?


So we have

A/ your idea that no RPG-1 ever existed
B/ the idea that the RPG-1 was simply the Panzerfaust renamed "RPG-1" and used because of the huge number of captured weapons available
C/ the idea that the RPG-1 was a wholly a Soviet design based on a study of captured panzerfausts but wasn't produced in quantity.

Given those choices we decided to go with options B (and/or C )as there was more evidence something called an "RPG-1" existed than not.

OK ? That's why there is an "RPG-1" in our OOB. If you don't like it, you can take it out as you have done but it's a little tiresome to have this repeatedly used and an example of why your OOB is so much more "accurate" because you don't include it.


Don

[KraMax]

There are no certificates that RPG-1 existed. RPG-1 was the experimental sample - works on its creation have ended in 1947-48 when was already ready RPG-2 which had more the best characteristics.
Also you will not find that any documentary proof that the Red Army used AFTER war - German panzerfaust or panzersrek.
Trophy panzerfaust and panzersrek - were transferred - to assault-engineering-sapernym parts of Red Army - during war 1944-45 and were used by them for carrying out of assault operations - for example, for destruction of well strengthened fire points of the opponent, storm of Berlin, etc.
AFTER war all trophy weapon was - is handed over on warehouses, the further destiny of this weapon to trace difficult.
I searched in Google - "RPG-1 grenade", "RPG-1", "Panzerfaust" - I have not found any information on that that RPG-1 there was on arms of Red Army, besides that this experimental weapon which was never produced in lots. Also I have not found the information on that that panzerfaust - were used by Red Army AFTER war.

p.s. I have resulted RPG-1 for an example, I can result for an example still the weapon from present OOB of which was not and was not present in USSR/Russia.

p.s.2. sorry for my bad English

[politruk]

Greetings!

Drg, really, we haven't got any info about RPG-1 at Soviet forces. For example, I saw only articles describes that RPG-1 were only at experimental, small consignment (as many, many weapons which we can't see at our game).

[KraMax]

http://diversant.h1.ru/guns/granatomet/rpg1.html

machine translator:

In 1944 on Research range mortars arms of the Main artillery management have begun works on creation manual anti-tank grenade-launcher a complex as a part of grenade cup discharge LPG-44 and cumulative grenade PG-70 (the head of works - the leading designer of range G.P.Lominsky).

70-mm HEAT the cumulative grenade was charged with gun grenade cup discharge parts. For a throwing charge of a grenade the smoky gun gunpowder placed in a tube pomegranates was used. Grenade stabilisation in flight was carried out by means of the rigid stabilizer.

The grenade cup discharge represented jet system of reusable application. It had a smooth trunk in length of calibre of 1000 mm of 30 mm. On a trunk the cock of type and an aim lath fastened the with great dispatch-trigger mechanism (front sights on a grenade cup discharge were not. Since the aiming was made through a cut of a sight and on the top edge of a grenade). On a grenade cup discharge trunk wooden thermoprotective overlays fastened.

In 1944-45 have been conducted range of test of the grenade cup discharge which has received after that the official name "Manual anti-tank grenade cup discharge RPG-1", and a grenade - PG-1. Preparation of a batch production and manufacturing of experimental batches of grenade cup discharges and grenades have begun. Carrying out of large-scale tests and complex acceptance was planned for arms. However the considerable time spent for completion of shots to a grenade cup discharge (it has been connected with unsatisfactory action of a grenade because of imperfection of its detonator, and lacks of a powder charge on stability of burning at various temperatures in the summer and in the winter), became the reason of an obsolescence of a complex. Works on RPG-1 proceeded till 1948, but to finish it it was not possible, and on arms it has not been accepted.