sdkfz 10/4

[DRG]

You have NO idea how tempting it is to say "yes" just to give you something to keep you busy for a week or two.

Given that there are over 12,000 units in winspww2 and give that each basic unit has up to 60 bit's of information that make it up giving us a total up to 720,000 chances for you to find something you don't think is correct I have no doubt you could find fault with hundreds if not thousands of individual details in these OOBs. I also have no doubt were we insane enough to do that in the end the noticeable effect on game play would be nil for all but a very "select" few.

So no, I'm not all that interested unless something is grossly out of line.

Don

[PanzerBob]

Geez Chuck where do you find the time? And DRG thanks for the MOD. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Balloons.gif[/img]

[PatG]

Any such comprehensive and un-biased review would only serve to confirm that in the game all German units are 1-2 points too large and all Allied units are 1-2 points too small.

[DRG]

Really ??? "All" ???

Tell you what, put up or shut up. Show me how "all" German units are 1-2 points too large and "all" allied units are 1-2 points too small. Oh, I am certain that if you dig hard enough you can find something that may be off in any OOB but "ALL" ?

Sherman's are size 5 and the most numerous of it's opponents the PzIV is size 4 but the Panther is 5 but the Panther is wider so which is the bigger target from the front or from the side ?. The Sherman is rated the same "size" in the game as the Tiger 1. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that we have rated the Tiger 1-2 points too small ?? Should the Tiger be less than five ?? Remember YOU were the one who said "all German units are 1-2 points too large and all Allied units are 1-2 points too small"

Gimme a break. I am seriously fed up with nonsense like this. If this is your idea of serious comment please leave this forum.

And just who's going to do the "unbiased" review based on WHAT criteria exactly ?

Don

[Marek_Tucan]

I think Pat was being a wee bit ironic there

[chuckfourth]

Hi DRG
It appears to me that size seems to be the main determinant of how hard it is to hit any particular vehicle. When it comes to hitting a vehicle "in the real world" by far the most important dimension for the vehicle is its height. This is because when your gun is pointed at the target the chance of the shell deviating from its course -sideways- because of (the only factors I can think of) wind/spin is close to nill. With respect to height however, shooting over or under the target(short) becomes very easy as the range increases and the round begins to follow a curved path. ie in the horizontal plane the round travells in a straight line in the vertical plane it describes an arc. So it is much easier to miss a target in the verticle plane. Put another way the direction to the target is 'error free' but the range isnt.
So the higher the vehicle the bigger mistake you can make in estimating its -range- and still hit it. Whereas the -direction- to fire the round has so little error than if it wasnt for the curved flight problem you'd hit it every time.
So height is a much more important dimension than width or length when calculating hit probabilities.
So
For the purposes of size you could use height as the main size determinant and then anything that is tall but very small or short but very wide/long may move a size category up or down. This would be a reaonable approach in game terms as the vast majority of vehicles have very similar dimensions/shapes and because there are so 'few' sizes to choose from. Not a lot of vehicles sizes would change as I would guess that the origional sizes are in fact related to heights, which is why the Sherman and Tiger are the same "size". Ignoring coupola they are nearly the same height.

When comparing heights for this purpose it should be considered that the bottom metre or so is usually "hidden" at most battle ranges, Which is why MBTs have thinner bottom angled armour at the bottom front and thinner armour low down ie behind the wheels.
I am of course very happy to do this review to an agreed criteria. I could also put in the aberdeen rough speeds as well while Im at it.
Its interesting to note that in v6 of the game Humbers and Damliers are in fact size 3.
Hope this is of interest
Best Regards Chuck.

[PatG]

Don,
Sorry about the friendly fire. I owe you a beer or keg.

[DRG]

OK. It had been a long day and given some of the remarks made by others on this forum recently and in the past about various things I didn't catch the "Irony" in what you were saying if that was you're intent.

Don

[PanzerBob]

Hey Guys I would never belittle the excellent job you've performed on my favourite game.

I've always maintained if I don't like something I change it, anybody can and it's not hard.

Thanks yet again