Scales You Should Never Take?

[CUnknown]

Wow, great idea Tuidjy. Growth should definitely lessen the effect of the black deaths, blights, etc. That would be awesome. Growth could use a boost too, and that one makes perfect sense.

[OmikronWarrior]

Order-3, Growth-3, heat/cold-0 are the gold maximizing scales. Taking additional hot/cold nets you -5% gold, which ain't good. Especially considering Order usually accompanies Misfortune causing fixed income losses (200 gold to repair vital equipment!). Meaning, thinking in terms of margins, the felt effect is more than just 5%.

Combining Turmoil, Misfortune, and Death is suicide. I doubt you'll be able to go 6 turns with out recruiting becoming impossible at your home province. Death and Misfortune is pretty bad itself even with order, but the effects might be delayed longer to let you get set up.

As for magic and drain, yes the largest effect these scales will have on your game is on your research. However, keep in mind magic scales also effect MR and spell casting fatigue. If you're up against LA Ermor, it might be worthwhile to consider magic scales for the sole purpose of making his undead units easier to banish.

[Sir_Dr_D]

people say to always use order 3 misfortune 2, or else luck 3, turmoil 3. But I I am using order 3 and luck 3 in a current game, and have found the combination quite effective.

[Endoperez]

Order/Luck is very good, but also very expensive. Most nations have trouble getting the points for it.

[Omnirizon]

are there any side effects to taking heat/cold scales (besides what's listed: - gold/supplies)

If you take 3 heat/cold to fund 3 order + growth (split up however you like), you will make a net gain in gold (especially considering the growth scale over the long run) and break even or just under on supplies. On top of that, taking 3 heat/cold is really only like taking 2.5 heat/cold (giving you a .5 scale in points worth) because half the time that scale doesn't match dominion, so if it is already maxed out in your dominion, you get the points for it but it will never randomly (or by seasons, whatever) go higher than three; and will often the time be under three (thus you only take a 2.5 effects worth of negative scale for 3 scales worth of points).

Unless there is some unstated side effect to having a very high heat/cold, this just seems like a no-brainer to take.

[vfb]

You're not necessarily funding order with those 120 points, if you've bought an expensive pretender. Effectively, you're buying 120 design points by paying a 12.5% penalty on your gold income. Whether that's a good idea or not depends on how much you need that gold, and what you're buying with those points.

One point in favor of temperature-3 scales that you don't mention is that if you have an SC god with immunity to your temperature scale, he won't suffer the encumbrance penalty that most indies or armies will. And he might also get an improved aura or extra power.

[Endoperez]

vfb said:
One point in favor of temperature-3 scales that you don't mention is that if you have an SC god with immunity to your temperature scale, he won't suffer the encumbrance penalty that most indies or armies will. And he might also get an improved aura or extra power.

In case you didn't know, that encumberance penalty is +2 enc for everyone without fire/cold resistance, as appopriate, when fighting in extreme temperature. I think it's heat 2 or cold 2, but it might be heat 3/cold 3 as well.

Cold scale will hose cold-blooded creatures, strengthen Chill, weaken Heat, strengthen Murdering Winter cast at you (bad!), and change Water Elementals into Ice Elementals. Heat scale will do the opposite, except that I'm not sure if Heat scale makes Flames from the Sky etc more powerful.

[Kristoffer O]

I tend to take death all the time. I do not consider myself a rusher, but unless you continue to expand some one else will and you have lost. SInce you have to expand if you are a long term player and not comfortable with a petty war with your annoying neighbour (which I often appreciate more) you have to take scales and a god thet is initially strong, and that means a death scale for points.

So a death scale is actually a good way of long term planning. As long as you don't get stuck in a war there is no reason not to take it. If you on the other hand feel satisfied and complacent after having taken another nation your death scales might take effect. Then you know you are not making enough war.

Heat might be a no brainer unless you want as much income as possible, or if you end up next to abysia or some such.

[Wick]

OmikronWarrior said:
Taking additional hot/cold nets you -5% gold, which ain't good.

Remember summer, winter, and that the scale is capped at 3. Taking your base temperature is -2.5%, one scale adds -2.5%, subsequent but not capped scales are -5% each, and the capped scale is -3.75%, unless it's also the first in which case it's just -1.25%! Being one scale off is usually a good idea.

[Corwin]

I often take Misfortune 3 Order 3 scales. I won about 30%-40% of MP Dominions games I've played over the last few years. Misfortune 3 is not really as scary as many people believe, and sometimes you can even turn it to your advantage.