Poison weapons

[Sombre]

It's secondaryeffect afaik.

The theory that the arrows are tipped with poison gas or exploding liquid or something,... well I guess you can explain anything away if you try hard enough. To me that seems really silly though. You might as well say a wizard did it. It's clear that some weapons work that way, like the Skaven poison globes, like poison spit attacks or Ctisian poison slingers,.. but blowdarts, sauromatian arrows, poison daggers etc are obviously poison tipped and logically should need to do at least a point of mundane damage to work.

In gameplay terms it's problematic mainly in terms of modded units with poison ranged weapons, but in basegame it's part of the reason the sauromatian archers are so nuts. If they were required to do at least 1 point of mundane they'd still be great but wouldn't be capable of mowing down heavy infantry like they do now.

[Kristoffer O]

I thought that 1 p dmg was needed. Does the same apply to other secondary poison effects, or is this just a mistyping on the poison bow data?

[Sombre]

I'm 90% sure this applies to all weapons with a poison as a secondaryeffect. Give me 5 minutes and I'll test it though.

-5 minutes later-

I can say for sure that weak poison as a secondaryeffect on a missile weapon works even if it's parried and even if the missile weapon does 0 actual damage. I can't imagine the other poisons are different, nor stuff like flaming arrows damage.

Regarding poison as a secondaryeffect on melee weapons,.. I'm not sure. I'll test that next and post up my findings.

[Sombre]

Ok judging for a quick test, melee weapons DO require at least one point of damage to be dealt before the secondaryeffect of poison will be applied.

So I have no issue with how they work at all, only with missile weapons.

[calmon]

We should also discuss the hit chances to targets with shield.

Its nearly impossible to hit a commander with a parry 8+ shield.

There should be a malus for other every arrow hitting the field. Something like the -2 defence in melee per attacker beyond the first.

[Hadrian_II]

calmon said:
There should be a malus for other every arrow hitting the field. Something like the -2 defence in melee per attacker beyond the first.

I'd love that, massed xbows would become a valid SC counter

[Taqwus]

Hadrian_II said:

I'd love that, massed xbows would become a valid SC counter

In some cases, there'd also be grounds for giving a penalty to the shield that lasts more than just that turn. It's going to be a bit more unwieldy to use a shield if there's a large spear or throwing axe embedded in it, for instance.

[K]

Sombre said:
It's secondaryeffect afaik.

The theory that the arrows are tipped with poison gas or exploding liquid or something,... well I guess you can explain anything away if you try hard enough. To me that seems really silly though. You might as well say a wizard did it. It's clear that some weapons work that way, like the Skaven poison globes, like poison spit attacks or Ctisian poison slingers,.. but blowdarts, sauromatian arrows, poison daggers etc are obviously poison tipped and logically should need to do at least a point of mundane damage to work.

I don't follow that logic. There are lots of poisons that only need to touch skin to work, or do the tiniest scratch, so I see no reason why even one HP of damage needs to be done. I mean, who says that the Sauromatian arrow isn't designed to shatter spectacularly and if even a tiny sliver scratches you or works its way into your armor then you are poisoned.

[Sombre]

Against enemies with normal heavy armour (such as chainmail hauberk or plate cuirass) the chances of doing 1 damage with massed missile weapons is actually not that bad. To my mind that already simulates the poison somehow managing to get to an exposed spot. Against a cyclops with skin of granite, ulmish warriors encased head to toe in full blacksteel armour and the like, I see no reason why poison from an arrowhead would get to a vulnerable spot where melee weapons can't.

Sure you can say "who says the sauromation arrow isn't X or Y" in order to explain the way things currently are. Like I said earlier, you can pretty much explain anything away if you try. But an equally valid argument would be "who says the sauromatian arrow /is/ X and Y". Not KO, judging from his response. It appears he intended the poison from the missile weapons in question to activate only with a minimum 1 mundane damage.

I find the idea of some spectacularly exploding shrapnel arrow a hell of a stretch too. In terms of recruitable troops without magic weapons specifically mentioned in the descriptions, Dominions follows pre-gunpowder armaments. To my knowledge there has never been a shattering, armour piercing poison flechette arrowhead used in the history of warfare, probably because it's way too complex. There are plenty of examples of regular or barbed arrows dipped in nasty poisons, excrement and so on,.. but those wouldn't do much unless they got past armour.

[Renojustin]

"To my knowledge there has never been a shattering, armour piercing poison flechette arrowhead used in the history of warfare..."

Laughed out loud.