Mod: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies

[Aezeal]

Since a lot of the good modders seem to look in here now and then I have another question: can you arrange in which order the troops appear on the recruit bar?

(I'd like nomads first, then my 2 sacreds and lastly the HUGE roc)

[Endoperez]

Yes; it's the order in which you list #addreccom and #addrecunit. Any units available from sites are always added last, though, so if the Roc isn't site-spesific and even one of the sacreds is, you can't do it.

[Aezeal]

ah so cap only units are always last..
hmm one of them is so I guess then I'll do nomads, roc, sacred

[Aezeal]

btw endo:
I really liked the nomad warrior, keep up the good work if you figure out how to give them a scimitar (you could copy the one the jann has?) I'll add them to my mod file.

Think you can do the cavalry too?

What do you think about the discussion about stats?

What do you think about the roc?

PS I attached what I have in sprites and .dm file so far so those interested or working with me on this can check it out if they want.

[Endoperez]

I'm going to see Bandar Log and EA Kailasa for the curved swords, and perhaps C'tis as well. It's not the sword (when I can compare to Dominions sprites) but where the hands are located that's giving me trouble. I think I'll go watch some youtube videos about Kalaripayattu and see if I can find something interesting. I think I'll give the commanders slightly different poses and fancier attack.

[Wrana]

On stats: I wouldn't give them higher sterngth - after all, classic barbarian unit is straight from Conan the Barbarian, & in this mythos desert nomads are wiry & fast, not particularly strong. Better defense is fine & it's along these lines. AP 13 is probably okay, remembering "running back & forth" mentioned above (btw you were partly right, it's Mohammed who introduced phalanx-like formations here, though they probably seen something before serving as mercs during Persian-Byzantine wars). Higher MR can be explained by genie influence & the fact that genies were certainly not above mixing their blood with that of subject folk... BTW this could explaine higher stats of your "dervish" pretty well! Though gold cost is probably going to be 11? Rukh - I would think it summon, but understand your reasoning on summonable eagle (I tried it once & never used since! ) - for usefulness we can remember that Roc/Rukh was said to hunt elephantes & give it better attack against large creatures (not sure how it works, though) or something along these lines (& you surely can imagine what it would be to be near such birdie than it starts to beat wings, so trample isn't completely out of question... or swallow).
Also, on the desert garb - did you remember that 'furs' also give defense & encumbrance penalty which desert garb shouldn't do?
On .dm - probably genie nobility should get something richer than leather cuirass? Even "magical lightweight armor" possibly?
on MA - for now it looks about this:
units: Nomad infantry, Nomad cavalry - both armored,etc. as above, probably stealthy (in this case, got "raiders" in their name);
Deilemite (mountainmen) infantry - light armor (see which), large shield, javelin, probably their authentic jupine (2-end spear ) or axe/bardiche/halberd, better morale;
Corsairs - 2 scimitars, probably leather cuirass (these don't wear desert garb!), pillage bonus;
Faris (Arab noble cavalry) - standart noble stats boost, light lance, chain hauberk, probably thrown axe or javelin;
Ghulam cavalry - full scale, composite bow, scimitar or broadsword (they almost never used lances);
Nomad ahdas (militia) - purhased for 1 battle, so cheaper, stats are as normal;
Ghazi - sacred, probably both infantry & cavalry; probably Ghulam/Mamluk infantry;
slighly possible elephant or nafta throwers (both were used in the region, but relatively rare = if make, then capital only). Maybe add some more regular infantry such as citizen militia?
Commanders:
Nomad chieftain (stealthy, I think, but with Ld 40);
Corsair captain (?) - sailing, of course!;
Pekhlevan - noble with genie blood, so larger than human, much stronger, with some random(?) magic;
Imam (priest 2), Kadi (priest 2 with patrol bonus/decrease unrest), Hoji (priest 3, capital only?), possibly Khalif as a highest priest (4) with fighting ability & Ld 40; possibly capital-only Ismailite priest?
Amir or something as regular troops commander with Ld 80;
Star-gazer - Astral 2 mage, prevent bad events;
Elemental sorcerers of at least 2 kinds (normal and higher, need to think that up);
Thief of Baghdad/Xanadu - spy (unfortunately, engine doesn't allow him to be used to steal, e.g., opponent's gems );
Hashishiine - names says all.
Genies become summons in this era, except possibly some minor one...

[Aezeal]

makes for a very religious nation.

Personally I'd not use mountainmen, I'm sure they where there but it just makes the nation look like a rag tag of tribes with the corsairs and the nomads and genie offspring. I'd focus a bit more on only nomads (continuity through the era's) and the most general "arab" stuff (which seem to be the ghulam/faram/ghazi.

Maybe keep some genies (continuity) one of the troop as cap only and the regular efriti/marid as cap only too (--> you wanted elemental sorcerers?) the genie nobility would then be summons

I think you are making to many types of priests, just remove the imam and go with the Kadi (both priest 2 seems a bit much) and no level 4 priests (are there many recruitable lvl 4 priests in the game?)

Same on the cavalry btw nomad, ghulam, faris AND Ghazi... maybe one or two to much?
(on this point and the last, maybe try to find a separation for some to fit better in LA? (the most heavily armoured?))

The Pekhlevan sounds like a very good idea

No magic carpets?

All in all I think we mustn't get much more units in an era than regular nations (I see it a lot in Sombre's excellent warhammer nations, but IMHO you won't use most of them, just the most efficient, and having a few around just for flavour is nice but let's not overdo it) (my roc seems very useless really but I wanted one since I like it from Sinbad's legend )

The star-gazer and his abilities seem nice but maybe call him Wazir too?

reply on my .dm: yes they probably should get a bit more than leathers indeed, but they don't wear that much and I didn't find anything in vanilla game that seemed suitable and I didn't want a high class armour. Something for the bracers, shoulderpads and belt etc... is there a name for such an outfit?

and your point on the desert garb: do you mean you think the desertgarb should get those penalties too?

[Sombre]

Do my warhammer nations have more troop types than regular dom3 ones?

[Endoperez]

First four nomad sprites attached. The buckler is just a blot, but the sword/pose is good. I prefer the alternative versions (lower ones on this preview image), but we need nomad commanders too so all will probably be used. Commanders will get different colors, jewel or feather on their turban, different sash (if that means cloth belt like I think it does) etc.



Anything I should improve? Anything you don't like? I'm serious here, I'm going to study drawing/animation and I have to get used to being bashed.

[Wrana]

To Aezeal:

makes for a very religious nation.

Yes, as I've said previously I'm partial to early Islamic conquests. And they WERE deeply religious! Of course, there should be only one Khalif a time, however, but I don't know how to make it so (like special Prophets of some nations?); also, somewhat later Cordoba rulers iirc also proclaimed themselves Khalifs while secular power of Khalifs waned to be replaced with military commanders & secular rulers, such as later Sultans.

Personally I'd not use mountainmen, I'm sure they where there but it just makes the nation look like a rag tag of tribes with the corsairs and the nomads and genie offspring. I'd focus a bit more on only nomads (continuity through the era's) and the most general "arab" stuff (which seem to be the ghulam/faram/ghazi.

And I didn't even include Kurds! Probably I will remove Deilemites as well, particularly as I'm not sure how to better represent them.

Maybe keep some genies (continuity) one of the troop as cap only and the regular efriti/marid as cap only too (--> you wanted elemental sorcerers?) the genie nobility would then be summons

Probably yes, as cap only. We'll need to see how this will play out... And probably add to summons some that calls several genie warriors at once?
Also, I've found in Shah-name a fine event - a daw in onagre's shape who ravaged provinces & lured into traps heroes who tried to capture it! This should probably be a sending spell, either similar to existing Boar or of assassination type...

I think you are making to many types of priests, just remove the imam and go with the Kadi (both priest 2 seems a bit much) and no level 4 priests (are there many recruitable lvl 4 priests in the game?)

Well, Machaka has some specialized priests with different non-magical abilities. Level 4 priests are read as "Priests: strong" in nation descriptions , though I agree they are rare. Will need to think it up, particularly from the point of view of the balancedness of the whole faction... Possibly Kadi will have to become lesser priest than Imam, though...

Same on the cavalry btw nomad, ghulam, faris AND Ghazi... maybe one or two to much?
(on this point and the last, maybe try to find a separation for some to fit better in LA? (the most heavily armoured?))

Well, they will, I hope, have different niche uses.. LA will include more infantry & probably no faris (they still wouldn't get real heavy lancers, though).

No magic carpets?

Well, YOU were against them in MA! Also, they are probably most thematic for elemental mages. Pekhlevan will certainly ride noble "elephant-like" steeds, and combat-oriented genie nobles will have magical steeds of their own. As for Scout on flying carpet - we'll see how it will look from the balance point of view also.

All in all I think we mustn't get much more units in an era than regular nations (I see it a lot in Sombre's excellent warhammer nations, but IMHO you won't use most of them, just the most efficient, and having a few around just for flavour is nice but let's not overdo it)

Well, as was already said there are some factions with lots of troops types (early Ermor/later Pythium comes to mind, as well as MA Ulm...). And it's not as we gonna to force players to use all of them! As for Warhammer factions - all their troops aren't often used in tabletop games, too, but in particular circumstances they may shine. And we here can use MORE options to make them different & have various uses then WH players can, especially as they can have uses beyond battlefield per se. I see no problem in this (unless Endoperez will tire from making sprites, that is ).

The star-gazer and his abilities seem nice but maybe call him Wazir too?

Quite possibly. I don't remember their authentic name. In Persia they were called Mobed & were different from Wazir. No big deal in any case, we can change this anytime.

reply on my .dm: yes they probably should get a bit more than leathers indeed, but they don't wear that much and I didn't find anything in vanilla game that seemed suitable and I didn't want a high class armour. Something for the bracers, shoulderpads and belt etc... is there a name for such an outfit?

Well, we can even call up bracers as such... It probably would work but needs to be tried. And if we'll call up "Robes of Sorceress", it should give it's protection without other item's powers. Another probability is to appropriate Skull Neclace. Current modding manual doesn't include probability for making Miscellanous armor, but I don't know whether such attempt will work or not. But good old things most probably would.

and your point on the desert garb: do you mean you think the desertgarb should get those penalties too?

NO! I mean that it certainly shouldn't - that's the whole point of it. But to keep balance it most probably should give worse Prot than furs, which are, after all, quite bulky. 7 would be too good without penalties & not thematic with them.
As for commander read as trooper - I don't see. Probably some misprint, try to use Find for whether this number appears another time.
To Endoperez:
Nomad sprites - I better like the lower pair but variant with attack sprite from higher one is also fine.
The sheikh should be mounted, precisely!
Mounted scout should get greyish garb & yes, covered face would be nice touch.
On wielder of 2 scimitars - there should be also version without long robes, for future Corsair!
Camel riders shouldn't have visible armor, they are either mostly caravaneers who have some weapons for self-defense or lighter troops (I'll try to find out whether there were heavier troops on camels, but for now it seems the fantasy of Medieval2's authors...).
And thank you again.