Wish and Horrors

[Tuidjy]

> If I look at the stat line of the Seraph, I'm pretty sure that it's a
> lot more powerfull than a greater horror when equipped

This is debatable. Seraphs are powerful casters, etc. But there is at least one
horror than does about 320hp per turn of always-hit, unresistable damage.
I.e. if you are next to it, it kills you.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

>> who says R'lyeh is evil.. they are just different.. a higher being like a serpah understands

Last time I checked, enslaving a whole race (Atlanteans in this case) was considered evil. If the Seraph understands that as okay, he should get himself a new job as fallen angel or angel of death.


>> This is debatable. Seraphs are powerful casters, etc. But there is at least one horror than does about 320hp per turn of always-hit, unresistable damage. I.e. if you are next to it, it kills you.

Only the mid-strength greater horrors should be available. The one that killed my mage wasn't really that bad. However my pretender got once attacked by a real badass doing almost hundreds of damage points in a very short time. Fortunately my Kraken was too powerfull at this point (~1400 HP) even for such a nasty. But I agree, this horror type would be probably a bit over the top.

[Loren]

What if you wish for a greater horror and then have spells prepared to capture it. Does this work?

[Professor_Dyar]

Well, to quote the description of Late R'lyeh...

But the Void was not to be controlled, even by the Starspawns.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

>> Well, to quote the description of Late R'lyeh...

Well, I think there should be a chance that things go wrong and the horror has a 'bad day'. Using the void gate is risky too, but getting a super monster like a Vastness is really worth the risk. Summoning a greater horror from wish should therefore bear a risk too.

[Endoperez]

Sometimes the horrors appear and obey you, for a time. Then they disappear. Some of the horrors don't want to move away from the province you summoned them in, but stay in place causing madness in any troops and mages you happen to have around there.

[Wrana]

Yes, for example. Possibly Horrors, etc. should be considered to have Insane 10-50 due to their different thought process...

[capnq]

ArkhanTheBlack said: >> who says R'lyeh is evil.. they are just different.. a higher being like a serpah understands

Last time I checked, enslaving a whole race (Atlanteans in this case) was considered evil. If the Seraph understands that as okay, he should get himself a new job as fallen angel or angel of death.

"Seraph" is just a convenient label for an entity of a particular power level. Your version of the summoning spell will contact a compatibly aligned entity. "Horror" is a similar label that merely implies the entity is more likely to have its own agenda.

"Good" is the label for your worshippers; "evil" is everybody who opposes you. History is written by the winners.

[Edit] Afterthought: "last time [you] checked" was later than the mid-seventeenth century. Judging the past based on the moral and ethical standards of the present is just another case of the "us" versus "them" split that KO mentions in his reply.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

>> "Seraph" is just a convenient label for an entity of a particular power level.
No, it isn't! A seraph is an angel of the highest rank in christian religion (exists in jewish too, but it's not the highest rank there). Christian religion has very clear rules for 'good'. They are known as 10 commandments.

>> "Good" is the label for your worshippers; "evil" is everybody who opposes you. History is written by the winners.
That's just anarchism, nothing more.

[Kristoffer O]

>> "Seraph" is just a convenient label for an entity of a particular power level.
>No, it isn't! A seraph is an angel of the highest rank in christian religion (exists in jewish too, but it's not the highest rank there). Christian religion has very clear rules for 'good'. They are known as 10 commandments.

To my knowledge the ten commandments are not the christian definition of good. Jesus abolishes the law and says that you shall love the next. (Not sure of the english wording here). Thus honoring the sabbat is not part of the definition of good in christianity. Not doing what you don't want others to do to you is.

Actually christianity have less clear rules on good and evil than most religions, at least as presented by Jesus. Jesus places higher moral responsibility on the christians then most religious founders do. It is you who shall know what is wrong, and be judged. The old testament might guide you, but it is your thoughts and intentions that are judged. That is a very hard position, especially since very few have the moral fibre of Jesus. Fortunately Christianity allows forgiveness for all those who are unable to cope with this vast responsibility.

Oops. Sorry. Got carried away

Thus both the seraph and the Vastness are not good, by the standard humans should treat each other. Seraphs do kill and maim the unfaithful, quite in opposition of what Jesus said. Vastnesses shatters minds or whatever, probably rather indiscriminately.

>> "Good" is the label for your worshippers; "evil" is everybody who opposes you. History is written by the winners.
>That's just anarchism, nothing more.

It's not anarchism. Its history (the meaning of the term when applied to the study of history), sociology, or otherwise scientific (as in not value laden) perspective. Although the assessment 'history is written by the winner' is perhaps no longer a neutral sentence, but an expression of scienticism (not sure if this word actually exists ).

Hmm, lost focus there. My point is that it is the general perspective of most scientific studies that 'we' define 'us' as 'good', while 'they' are defined as 'evil'. If 'we' wrote history 'they' were evil.

Most religions have similar views on what is good and what is not (not kill, not steal, not have sex outside strict social structures, and other stuff that causes disturbances in society) but still they define each other as evil.

Hmm, I did not intend to go into religion and theology. Hope you don't mind.