Manifestation is overpowerd.

[Baalz]

Please don't feed the trolls. Even the ones claiming they'll not be trolling again.

And, because this thread definitely needs it...

Monkey PD is like kryptonite, nobody can win with it regardless of anything else they have. Even ninjas couldn't win with monkey PD. Even robot ninjas. Even robot ninja tartarians who wished for power. And a pony. Monkey PD is that bad.

[Kuritza]

Baaltz... I'm sorry to say this, but you are trolling now.

One fool claimed that crappy PD is the only thing that makes monkeys lose. Now you like this 'monkey PD' line so much it makes you automatically disregard anything with 'monkey' and 'weak' in one sentence.

[Daynarr]

Markatas are overpowered. They really ought to be nerfed. In fact, I think I'll suggest this in beta forum right now.

[Xietor]

Manifestation is hardly overpowered. It is but one of the very lethal tools at the disposal of a player with high research, d mages, and d gems.

Ghost Riders, Leprosy, Black Death, Manifestation, Banelords, Wraithlords, Legion of Wights, Demi Lich, Tartarians, ghosts and even, properly used, the undead elephants, can be very effective in destroying an opponent.

Death magic is one of the two most powerful magic paths. But to single out 1 spell and call it overpowered? Impossible. Black Death can depopulate your capital by 50 percent for the small price of a few gems.

Leprosy can disease your entire army, and with penetration bonuses, your mages as well.

Banelords early in the game can be near unstoppable, and are a force the entire game.

Ghost riders can beat almost any pd, for the price of 5 d gems.

Manifestation is a good spell, but hardly overpowered. It is not even in the top 5 of the most powerful spells in its line of magic. If a player could only keep 5 d spells in a mp game, I am fairly certain these 5 would rank ahead of manifestation on most lists:

1. tartarians
2. Banelords
3. Lich
4. Ghost riders
5. Leprosy

And to my limited way of thinking, as powerful as the line of d magic is, it is still second to Astral Magic, where a host of spells are game defining.

I really could not name 1 spell that by itself was overpowered, unless it was a global. If I had to name one nonglobal, it likely would be mind hunt. And I do not think even that is overpowered, but I think it is too cheap to cast at 2 s gems.

[Baalz]

I also have to point out that blood is a late game powerhouse to, though much fewer people leverage it properly. The reason is because a good late game death gem income is 30 gems per turn (yeah you can get more, I'm just saying the ballpark you "usually" have to play with). A good late game blood income is 300 slaves per turn. Is a disease demon better that an ashen angel? Probably not. Are 10 disease demons better than one (potentially backfiring) casting of manifestation? Hoard from hell can be even more effective than ghost riders in certain situations and is available much sooner and more easily castable (assuming a good blood income)...and if you want something more analogous to ghost riders there is send horrors, and heck that one even comes in a much more accessible lesser form which still does a good job clearing PD.

As far as overpowered unresistable spells how about the only two truly unresistable spells: go to hell. Only marginally more resistable and castable by very cheap mages: leech. With an AOE 1, high, AN damage leech spam is truly fiendish against elite troops, and it cares neither for your antimagic nor your armies of lead.

I'd put late game blood - properly leveraged, on the same level as astral and death.

[MaxWilson]

Out of curiosity, what are the typical counters to Infernal Prison/Claws of Cocytus/Leech? The first thing that comes to mind for me is Rain of Stones to kill the blood slaves, but you just know you're going to miss some. The next thing that comes to mind is staying further away than 30 squares, but that has obvious limitations.

-Max

[Baalz]

The most useful counter to them is using lots of cheaper units...or I guess lots of expensive units if you're real rich. Skelispam works well against leech spam (keep your mages out of range). Using high hp decoys (elephants, non-GOR'ed tartarians, abominations, tarasques, etc.) works well against life for a life and go to hell. Killing blood slaves works to

[Drake49]

I really could not name 1 spell that by itself was overpowered, unless it was a global. If I had to name one nonglobal, it likely would be mind hunt. And I do not think even that is overpowered, but I think it is too cheap to cast at 2 s gems.

Mind Hunt isn't powerful. Your just having flash-backs to LA Ryleh doing it's insane thing. Giving a nation a recruitable everywhere mage who is S3 and has a good chance of being S4 is overpowered. And then make them ocean and give them easy access to clams. Yeah, that'll do it. It just happens that one of the forms ridicilious clam income takes with nations that have ridicilious astral is excessive mind hunt. That's more a result of player laziness than actual effectiveness.

I had forge.
I had 200 clam astral income per turn.
I 'only' had S2 mages, so the number of 'all powerful' mind hunts I did on what should be the last turn of the game was four. Four.

That's because it takes a cap, and a coin, and at least a spell focus to get that S2 mage up so he can spit out a Hunt. So yeah, it's 'only' two astral pearls. If your LA R'yleh. And Tartanians are 'only' 10 D. And the Demi-Lich, Skull Staff, Skull Face, and the Ring/Robe.

[ano]

I think that MA Arco, Pythium, Bandar and MA R'lyeh can spam Mind Hunt quite well too. Huge astral income is definitely not required for it.
Yes, it is a good spell but hardly overpowered.

[Sombre]

Leech is perhaps king of the 1X spells. Ghost grip and frozen heart are also excellent, but leech stands out because it's surrounded by mostly crappy or hard to use blood battle magic.