The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Thread!

Endoperez · #1 June 7th, 2008, 09:13 AM

I tried modding my suggestions, but using Seasonal Spirits and CB together leaves them without magic.

Any suggestions for the great bear spirit of autumn? He'll be E4N3D2 at least, 200 hp, ethereal, prot 30, regen 20 and will heal his afflictions. And fallpower 50, so that his hp fluctuate between 100 and 400. I think he's the weakest one of the four because he doesn't have any AoE effects, damage shields or weapons, and the others summon better helpers. Would trample and 20 AP be enough to keep the bear competitive in the late game? I could give it some reinvigoration as well, if necessary, and it will have magical claws and bite to use against anything too big to trample.
The other ability I've been considering is huge fear aura, and an undead secondshape to protect him from soul slay. It'd link well to the Finnish peijaiset ritual, but also mean that he coudln't handle chaff alone.

Amhazair · #2 June 7th, 2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Endoperez said:
I tried modding my suggestions, but using Seasonal Spirits and CB together leaves them without magic.

That sounds suspiciously like the bug that surfaced in the latest patch giving issues with mod nations. Try activating your mods in a different order, that worked for some people. You can find a discussion of that bug in pages 130-131 of the bug thread.

Endoperez · #3 June 7th, 2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Amhazair said:
That sounds suspiciously like the bug that surfaced in the latest patch giving issues with mod nations. Try activating your mods in a different order, that worked for some people. You can find a discussion of that bug in pages 130-131 of the bug thread.

I know about that. I think it's "just" memory allocation problem. There's only so much space reserved for magic paths, and now it's starting to run out.

I doubt changing the order of mods really fixes anything. At most, it will change the order the magic is allocated in, and affect different creatures.

The log file gives warning when the paths don't show up, but I don't know what this means:
***** Warning: out of spellab

Wrana · #4 June 7th, 2008, 10:51 AM

Considering the king-with-snakes from Shahname - he is already in the game as Pretender with exactly the same snakes growing from his shoulders (called Lord of Snakes or somesuch). Shiva, etc. is also already in the game, though these summons are limited to India-based nations... And certainly Balrog-like creatures are plentiful enough (and it's not "thought of as demon" - that's his author's own words)! The (almost the) same goes for 4 Horsemen: they should be Death and it already has Tratarians...

Dragons would be very good, with Western-type ones having stats like those of Pretender dragons & only 1-2 Paths, & Oriental ones having different pictures, slightly worse stats & better magic (including Astral). Possibly Seasonal Power & certainly limit to China/Japan mythology-using nations.
Great Bear I've made as Pretender for my Bogarus-splitting mod. Fortunately the graphics were already here. I didn't make him trampler, but have given him 2 Paw Slap attacks having aoe 1 instead. I think it would be more in style of real bears...

Cerberus probably shouldn't be very large, but should have plenty of attacks, including some magical ones (I'd think 3 dog-head bites, 1 dragon-head which it had instead of tail, plus some Hydra-style as it had snakes instead of fur on his shoulders), plus immunity to undead attacks (various drains - don't know whether it's possible to do without making it undead), Dark Power - it became weaker under daylight, and certainly Patrol bonus!
Another possibilty is to continue the line of trolls - make a spell to specifically summon troll Moose Knights & someone Bogus-like...
Considering monster Pretenders I wouldn't put too much hope in them: their use is based, I think, mainly on Fear/Awe combo, with Awe provided by high Dominion. As actual monsters they would be too weak without such Awe (and there are no misc-slot items to grant such iirc) & extra hp granted by Dominion level...
Considering Sleeper I agree that he should be boosted - probably getting something like Hall of Fame ability(s) for free? After all, he's considered to have much experience...

I also agree that while Niefelheim has no real SC-gaining problem, they (and probably other Norse nations?) should have an ability to summon Rimtursar! And an idea that Greek-based nations should (at least at EA) have an ability to summon legendary Greek heroes was voiced recently... And just a thought: background of Man's Witches and Wardens says that Wardens are magically transformed by Witches to become stronger, etc. Maybe Man's Witches should have an appropriate spell which either summons Wardens or transforms normal infantry (?) into such? Similar transformation should be useful for other nations too - and is more appropriate for Nature magic than summons of unnatural creatures. The only possibility for this I think would be were-creatures: either some Werebear/Wereboar/Weretiger - stronger than existing Werewolf so better thug candidates (possibly not for every nation), or lycantrope which is also a mage of some skill so can self-buff (or both). I would also include some dinosaurs, but they probably should be resricted to C'tis...

Zeldor · #5 June 7th, 2008, 11:01 AM

Wrana:

Use some text formatting

I think that here we are only discussing NEW summons, leaving improving current ones to CBM mod. And we surely need as many national summons as possible. That is really bad that some nations have them while others don't.

It would be also cool to have mod command for setting if set unit is wishable or not.

JimMorrison · #6 June 7th, 2008, 12:24 PM

I had been thinking to suggest dinosaurs (or something modeled after them) but wasn't sure how it would be received. Anklyosaurs, Triceratops, Allosaurs in mid game, and Tyrannosaurs for the late game, could be really fun.

To make up for their lack of magic, they could have high prot (very thick skin), multiple strong attacks, and the spell could describe that due to their nature, when they are summoned they are also enslaved, making them mindless with a 50 morale. Or perhaps the mid game dinos would just be "unruly", so they'd be trained like the predator lizards, and just be 15 morale or so, but big Rex hs to be Slave Collared.

Does Slave Collar counteract insanity? Some of the more fantastic creatures could be summoned with high insanity or Shattered Soul if so, and you'd have to collar them immediately to retain control.

llamabeast · #7 June 7th, 2008, 12:48 PM

I am currently working on Grendel, and (inspired by talks of Ziz) a Roc. Thanks to those who made those suggestions, I am having fun.

JimMorrison · #8 June 7th, 2008, 12:53 PM

Army Ant Queen - N - size 6, trample, poison cloud, fear, very high prot, summon ally: army ants (I'd say 3-4 per turn, 20hp, 20prot, PR 100%)

Vermin - N/E - An ancient hermit who has been transformed into a tool of vengeance by an angry forest. - stats similar to Skratti, N4/E4/D4, shapeshift to army ant

(with increased stats, this guy should be a beast when transformed), automatic Creeping Death in combat

MaxWilson · #9 June 7th, 2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Endoperez said:
I tried modding my suggestions, but using Seasonal Spirits and CB together leaves them without magic.

Any suggestions for the great bear spirit of autumn? He'll be E4N3D2 at least, 200 hp, ethereal, prot 30, regen 20 and will heal his afflictions. And fallpower 50, so that his hp fluctuate between 100 and 400. I think he's the weakest one of the four because he doesn't have any AoE effects, damage shields or weapons, and the others summon better helpers. Would trample and 20 AP be enough to keep the bear competitive in the late game? I could give it some reinvigoration as well, if necessary, and it will have magical claws and bite to use against anything too big to trample.

I'm dubious about that Prot 20 on an ethereal being. You've giving him E4--shouldn't he have to buff himself up to Prot 20/25 with spells? I should think even a super-large bear with really thick skin would only have Prot 12 or so.

What's the thematic reason behind D2? I like it in a way because it lets him get reinvig via Soul Vortex, but I'd like a thematic justification.

-Max

JimMorrison · #10 June 7th, 2008, 01:54 PM

Because fall represents the beginning of decay...? Maybe.

Though I'd think that ethereal and regen 20 would really make him pretty awesome even with lower prot, especially given self buffing ability.

A question on seasonal power though, I thought it only gave a bonus? It's been some time since I played T'ien Chi but I was positive they had normal hp for the 3 seasons that they weren't boosted.