(Counter-) Intel question.

[geoschmo]

What if the defender has two projects going and has enough points stored between the two of them to stop the attack, but not enough in either one to stop the attack? Will the attack succeed? If not what happens to the points? Do they coem from both prohects equally or all from one and the rest from the other.

WHat happens to a counter intel project when all the points are depleted? Does it then go away?

If all this is correct it really is more imporant how long your projects have been going then how many points you are producing each turn.

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

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What if the defender has two projects going and has enough points stored between the two of them to stop the attack, but not enough in either one to stop the attack? Will the attack succeed? If not what happens to the points? Do they coem from both prohects equally or all from one and the rest from the other.

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I would assume the worst, and then be pleasantly surprised .
I think depletion happens from left to right, but I haven't seen much intel action in my games.

When a counter-intel project is depleted, it stays where it is. That saves a ton of micromanagement.

quote:

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If all this is correct it really is more imporant how long your projects have been going then how many points you are producing each turn.

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Well, multiply the two together. Moderate points for a moderate time is better than tons of points for a short while, or a handful of points for decades.

Of course, if you produce more than your opponent(s), then it dosen't matter how long you've been storing up

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Of course, if you produce more than your opponent(s), then it dosen't matter how long you've been storing up

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I always assumed that, but if everything else you are saying is correct then that is not exactly true. A player producing fewer points that stores them up by working on several attack projects over a long period of time can have sucess against a defending empire that produces more points if they dont do a good job of maintaing there counter intel projects so that they don't lose the stored points. Or am I still misunderstanding something?

Sounds like I need to do some testing this weekend. It never amazes me how I can still be learning stuff about this game after a year and a half.

Geoschmo

[rdouglass]

quote:

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Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
...Of course, if you produce more than your opponent(s), then it dosen't matter how long you've been storing up

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Is that really accurate? Not always IMO.

What about if your opponent is producing less intel points, yet sharing them equally across 12 intel projects each worth 50K points. They all finish on the same turn - that's 600,000 points thrown at you all at the same time. You'd have to have (to be safe) 3 CounterIntell III's almost done to protect against all those.

That's why I generally will have half my queue (6) counterintel projects (of the highest level I can) running at the same time. 6 CI III's can store up to 1,500,000 points (250K each). IIRC the key to counterintell is STORED points, not produced points.

</$.02>

EDIT: Beat me to it Geo....

[ 26 April 2002: Message edited by: rdouglass ]

[Q]

quote:

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Originally posted by askan:
well somebody shoot me down in flames if i'm wrong but

1. Counter Intel 1 counts as 1 defence per point spent
2. Counter Intel 2 counts as 2 defence per point spent.
3. Counter Intel 3 counts as 3 defence per point spent.

So for 130000 points on Counter Intel 3 you get 390000 defence. If this had been saved up for a few turns before you started your attack then it'll take a few more turns to bring the defence down.

Askan

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Yes, that's what I have read somewhere quite a time ago. But it was never confirmed that the higher counter intel projects act as multiplier of your intel points IIRC. Did anybody test this?
It seems intel is still the most mysterious area of SE IV.

[rdouglass]

quote:

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Originally posted by Q:


Yes, that's what I have read somewhere quite a time ago. But it was never confirmed that the higher counter intel projects act as multiplier of your intel points IIRC. Did anybody test this?
It seems intel is still the most mysterious area of SE IV.

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No, I'm pretty sure the only advantage is the increased storage capacity. I remember reading recently about CI I being able to prevent Intel II (and III) projects.

CI I 50,000
CI II 100,000
CI III 250,000

[Q]

Askan is right!
I made a test by modifying the intel projects:

Name := Counter - Intelligence Level 3
Description := Defensive preparations within an empire to prevent enemy intelligence operations. Counter-Intelligence will prevent attacks while it is in progress.
Group := Defense
Cost := 500000
Type := Intelligence Defense
Effect Amount := 3
Num Source Messages := 1
Source Message 1 := Our counter-intelligence operations have prevented intelligence attacks by the [%TargetEmpireName].
Num Target Messages := 1
Target Message Title 1 := Intelligence Project Defeated
Target Message 1 := One of our intelligence projects against the [%SourceEmpireName] was defeated by counter-intelligence defenses.
Source Picture := IntelSabotageByUs
Target Picture := IntelSabotageByUs
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Intelligence
Tech Level Req 1 := 2

Changing the "Effect Amount" to 1 in all counter intel projects and my enemy needs now 480000 intel points per turn to defeat my attacking projects as I expected.
So a counter intel project 3 indeed multiplies your defense intel points by 3. And if you have a medium AI bonus and the standard defense modifier in der settings of 120% this gives the AI a factor of 3x3x1.2 = 10.8 for the intel defense. You need 10.8x more attacking intel points as a human player than the AI needs for his defense!! IMHO this is too much and I will probably keep the "Effect Amount" for all projects to 1.