(Counter-) Intel question.

[Q]

quote:

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Originally posted by askan:
well somebody shoot me down in flames if i'm wrong but

1. Counter Intel 1 counts as 1 defence per point spent
2. Counter Intel 2 counts as 2 defence per point spent.
3. Counter Intel 3 counts as 3 defence per point spent.

So for 130000 points on Counter Intel 3 you get 390000 defence. If this had been saved up for a few turns before you started your attack then it'll take a few more turns to bring the defence down.

Askan

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Yes, that's what I have read somewhere quite a time ago. But it was never confirmed that the higher counter intel projects act as multiplier of your intel points IIRC. Did anybody test this?
It seems intel is still the most mysterious area of SE IV.

[rdouglass]

quote:

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Originally posted by Q:


Yes, that's what I have read somewhere quite a time ago. But it was never confirmed that the higher counter intel projects act as multiplier of your intel points IIRC. Did anybody test this?
It seems intel is still the most mysterious area of SE IV.

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No, I'm pretty sure the only advantage is the increased storage capacity. I remember reading recently about CI I being able to prevent Intel II (and III) projects.

CI I 50,000
CI II 100,000
CI III 250,000

[Q]

Askan is right!
I made a test by modifying the intel projects:

Name := Counter - Intelligence Level 3
Description := Defensive preparations within an empire to prevent enemy intelligence operations. Counter-Intelligence will prevent attacks while it is in progress.
Group := Defense
Cost := 500000
Type := Intelligence Defense
Effect Amount := 3
Num Source Messages := 1
Source Message 1 := Our counter-intelligence operations have prevented intelligence attacks by the [%TargetEmpireName].
Num Target Messages := 1
Target Message Title 1 := Intelligence Project Defeated
Target Message 1 := One of our intelligence projects against the [%SourceEmpireName] was defeated by counter-intelligence defenses.
Source Picture := IntelSabotageByUs
Target Picture := IntelSabotageByUs
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Intelligence
Tech Level Req 1 := 2

Changing the "Effect Amount" to 1 in all counter intel projects and my enemy needs now 480000 intel points per turn to defeat my attacking projects as I expected.
So a counter intel project 3 indeed multiplies your defense intel points by 3. And if you have a medium AI bonus and the standard defense modifier in der settings of 120% this gives the AI a factor of 3x3x1.2 = 10.8 for the intel defense. You need 10.8x more attacking intel points as a human player than the AI needs for his defense!! IMHO this is too much and I will probably keep the "Effect Amount" for all projects to 1.

[Saxon]

Can I ask a couple of clarifying questions; my mind seems sluggish this morning.

As the higher level counter intel projects produce two and three times the counter intel that level ones does, should you immediately upgrade to them as you get them? The down side being that you will lose what you have stored up in the lower level project.

Does this not make an offensive intel strategy pretty tough to get away with? You need at least three times what your opponent has before you can expect to do any real damage. At least with a more evenly matched fleet, you can do some sneaky things, but in intel, you have no such options. It seems to be pretty pure numbers.

[Q]

Saxon for your first question:
No, I think it is better to keep the old low level counter intel and put it at the end of your intel project list (highest project number). The attacking enemy projects will first deplete the counter intel project at the end of the list. Once it is depleted then you can cancel it. Deactivate the option "divide points equally" and all your available intel points will go to the first project and there you put the new high level conter intel. Just make sure that it is not completed within the next turn or you will loose your points!
Your second question: That's exactely my opinion too and therefore I changed it now in my ongoing game. The effect is enormous: My attacking intel projects have now a realistic chance to succeed, but I also have to spend much more of my intel points to defend myself against the attacking projects of my enemies.

[John Baxter]

I'm sorry but I really don't get all this. Do you loose all the stored points when you complete a project? And if so, why? I can't see the logic in that. One turn you have a masssive defence and the next you're a sitting duck?!

[Askan Nightbringer]

quote:

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Originally posted by Q:
Askan is right!

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Well f*ck me gently with a chainsaw

Intel is on the verge of being as useless as base contruction and bigger weapon platforms, cause its only effective against technologically backward or small empires.
Personally I'de be happy with a mod that had no intel defence at all accept for the intel sabotage project and only left the information gathering projects in.

So I'de leave -
Force Concentrations
Queue Concentrations
Ship Blueprints
Covert Recon
Census Thefts
Intelligence Sabotage
Communcation Taps
Embassy Taps
Empire Star Charts
Empire Archives
Unit Blueprints
Tech Reports


Now that would be alot more fun.


Askan