Machaka screwed more than ever ?

[Wick]

I was going to say that while a Bane Spider costs twice what he should at least his stealth was fixed, but I see that relatively it wasn't.

Edi, here's a clump of DB fixes (this is easy if you sort by the assassin column first):
443 Star Child is listed as Stealth 5, is actually 15.
585 Guild Master is listed as Stealth 5, is actually 25.
629 Stalker is listed as Stealth 20, is actually 40.
877 Bane Spider is listed as Stealth 5, is actually 10.
1436 Mujina is listed as Stealth 10, is actually 30.
1558 Tlahuelpuchi is listed as Stealth 0, is actually 15.
1744 Samanishada is listed as Stealth 10, is actually 20.
1879 Serpent Assassin is listed as Stealth 5, is actually 20.

Bug:
863 Apostatic Warrior really is stealth 0, probably should be 15 or 20 if he's an "able assassin".

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

How well armored are those heavily stealthed units?

Anyways, IMO able assassins doen't necessarily equate high stealth, but means of getting the job done. If you think of the bane spider as a sort of mafia hitman, rather than a stubtle type, it makes a bit of sense.

The stealth can be a problem, but I find assassins work best as a defensive tool, anyways. Since patrolling is such an easy counter. An invading army doesn't have the time or pd to patrol, and after an assasination is most vulnerable to counterattack. And then, you could easily cause enough unrest with your priest to prevent any patrols from being effective, making it difficult for them to take and hold any territory or lines of reinforcement.

A fire pearl does a lot for this guy, as well as being easy to forge if you're fetishing. Specifically in reducing the number of shield hits and carving through chaff. I don't find this guy's stealth a problem, just his magic resistance. Strength boosters are nice as well, and easily forgable, but earth isn't as nearly free as fire, though still easier to come by then death gems.

It is nice that they needn't worry about ethereal units either.

Not that assassins are reliable or survive much, but it is nice to note that when the random Intor Vadul is sieging your capital, a Bane Spider with a fire pearl and lycanthropo's amulet can send him fleeing to his death at 16 hitpoints, even if your Bane Spider barely survives with one measly hitpoint just before,

Anyways, my big concern with them isn't 20 stealth, its a miserable 10 MR, which turns out to be their biggest weakness, very hard to counter with your national paths or without a lead shield. A lucky mage can be their undoing, or a few mandragora, but at least they aren't stalled by a few dispossed spirits.

PS. Or sleep or whatever... point is, with 10 MR, even a randomly casting mage has a good chance of ending that battle.

[Edi]

Has anyone tried using a bane spider with a bunch of spider warriors set to guard commander? It'd be interesting to see if they join in on the assassination attempt.

The reason the bane spider also has less stealth than other assassins is that he has leadership. Commanders that have stealth confer the same stealth bonus to all stealth units under their command (so for example a Vanherse with stealth(25) gives all those stealth(0) bakemono archers +25 stealth.

[Gregstrom]

I thought (and I realise this is only the rulebook speaking) that a leader's stealth bonus was reduced if he led more than 10 0-stealth troops.

Although if he's leading 10 or less he gets the full bonus, so I see your point. If the guards went with him that'd be impressively nasty as assassinations go.

[Edi]

KO said nothing about that when I asked about the Ranger Captain not having any stealth bonus, but it is possible he did not remember that particular mechanic at the time.

As far as what the manual says, there is no penalty if the following units have stealth(10) or better, otherwise it's -1 per unit. At least that's my reading of it.

[MaxWilson]

Sadly no, if an assassin has guards they will not accompany him in the assassination attempt. They will, however, attack the province in a revenge attempt if the assassin leader gets himself killed. I guess that's why they're "not yet fully-trained assassins."

-Max

[JimMorrison]

Also consider that a squad of those spiders, and the leader being properly equipped, could probably deal with quite some PD as a raiding force. Though sadly, I'm sure gear for PD raiding would be somewhat different than preferred gear for assassination.....

[moderation]

MaxWilson said:
Sadly no, if an assassin has guards they will not accompany him in the assassination attempt. They will, however, attack the province in a revenge attempt if the assassin leader gets himself killed. I guess that's why they're "not yet fully-trained assassins."

-Max

Won't they auto-rout and die since they have no commander though? I guess at least you create a few points of unrest...

[Xietor]

I would like to see the bane spiders recruitable everywhere as that would give machaka a whole new stealth attack strat to go with their spies.

it is too limited with them being capital only, and i would never miss recruiting a black hunter in any event as they are a great unit even in the endgame with web, poison.

[MaxWilson]

Thematically, I don't like the idea of recruitable-anywhere Bane Spiders. I'm not opposed to cheaper, second-rate Bane Spiders being recruitable anywhere and the good ones being cap-only.

-Max