Some hints on MA R'yleh?

[chrispedersen]

Well, from the manual, p 51: suggests that eatch hot or cold decreases tax by 5% and supplies by 10%.

I think there is more scatter in the data, than you can accomodate.

Income is affected by type of fortress:
Kelp Cit = admin 40, at ma, oceania
Ramparts (Atlantis EA) = 15
Fortified City (Atlantis LA) =50
Dark cit =20 Ryallah

Basic Form = Pop/100 * Scale modifiers)* 1+fort/200, presuming no unrest.
I don't know your methodologies, but
if you had all neutral scales,


Case 1
Oceania Should be 338, without a hit for cold scales. And it is.
Ryalla Should be 326.7 Close enough.
Atlantis If early age, should be 318. If MA should be 354.
Actual is 324. so either +.5% or -8%.

Case 2:
Oceania, should be 457 Actual is 447. about -2%
R'lyeh , should be 424. Actual 434
Atlantis should be 456 Actual 485. about +6%


So, I don't think you can draw any conclusions. In the first case, oceania clearly did not take a hit from -3 cold. But no one took the expected 15% hit.

[JimMorrison]

(Edit: I swear I had tested the capital income before, though I didn't record the results at the time. I just did the test, so I retract my assertion about standardized home province income. )

[JimMorrison]

Well if anything, yes, it seems that the math is very misleading. The only thing that can be said for it is that the more water provinces there are, the more worthwhile it is to take Cold 3 as an aquatic, but probably not Heat. I may run a few turns into a game now, and see if R'lyeh takes the same encumbrance penalties that a non-aquatic does for Cold on land.


Edit ---

The test confirms that although income effects underwater are unpredictable, all units that are not CR WILL take an Enc hit in provinces that have Cold 3. The only unit that wasn't Encumbered was my Void Lord, who is 50% CR.

[chrispedersen]

Again Jim,
Thats why for me it matters a lot more who you are playing with.

I prefer pump almost every last farthing into unarmored illithid soldiers, who mind blast. Enc doesn't matter to them.

I set up in the back - and have very minimal meat shields.

[JimMorrison]

Indeed. I am pretty fond of the Meteorite Guards, because of their low gold cost. But with that heavy armor AND penalties from cold, it starts to become a logistical problem to exploit those heavy infantry.

Though if you only took Cold 2, you won't get so much an income penalty on land, and you won't get the Enc penalty on any of your troops. I need to play around more with pretender creation, see which style I am happiest with.

[thejeff]

Remember that even if you take Cold 3, it takes a while for provinces to shift all the way and there's seasonal variation as well. You won't usually be fighting in Cold 3. And you would be some of the time even if you took Cold 2.

This is why it's usually recommended that nations with a temperature preference take one more step of that scale. Almost free points.

[JimMorrison]

I belong to the camp that doesn't believe in seasonal variation. I mean, I have seen temperature fluctuations sure, but in my experience they are far too subtle to be a factor in a strategy. It's not as if all provinces are +1 Heat in summer and +1 Cold in winter, in fact it's far from that.

For me, one of the major deciding factors is the fact that the other temperature is so extremely debilitating to you, that you want to push in your direction as hard as possible, to insure more favorable conditions. The other being that your dominion hampers most other nations more than the excess temp scale hampers you. There is nothing "free" about a -5% income in your capital from turn 1 through the entirety of the game, that's for sure. And the longer the game goes, the more of your territory will have the extra scale, and thus be generating less income. It just happens that the tradeoff is worth it, you give your neighbors a large penalty, and you suffer a smaller penalty yourself.