Reality and fiction meet in a bad way

[Omnirizon]

Foodstamp said:

The United States as a country donates more money and time to Africa than any other non African country in the world. It's still not enough, but it should be enough that we are not the whipping boy for Africa's problems. That being said, as my generation gets older and begins to take public offices in the United States, I think that Africa will become the number one foreign issue as things come to a close in the middle east.

a perfect example of lying with statistics

although america donates a larger absolute value, they donate among the lowest proportional value as measured in GNI (gross national income). further, it is worth looking at exactly how this "aid" is being used. american aid is typically used to further american hegemony; and in the end often does more harm than good. example: in the 70's american aid in africa was used to encourage rapid industrialization of urban centers. all this did was create catastrophic urban growth leading to ignored rural areas, homelessness, poverty, disease, and a huge rich-poor gap. further, this industrialization was always in the interest of american business and hegemony, profits and resources were siphoned out of africa, and in return africans were given slums and a host of social problems.

before we toss about numbers about whose helping out the most, its worth looking at what this "help" is really all about. more appropriate avenues of development (such as the so called "appropriate technology", alternative technology, and soft energy paths) are squelched by politically entrenched opposing advocates coming from american business and commercial sectors, with interests invested in these sectors. because of the way american economy is organized (around shareholders), there is pressure for these advocates to make the quick buck, rather than go for the sustainable development. So they move for direct transfer of technology and resources that can allow for rapid industrialization or digitization (no matter the future consequences).

[Ballbarian]

One would think that this forum would have moderators to issue some sterns words in situations like this. I wonder if Shranel Games should recruit some new ones.

Ouch! My ribs still ache from that elbow.

[Foodstamp]

Omnirizon said:

a perfect example of lying with statistics

although america donates a larger absolute value, they donate among the lowest proportional value as measured in GNI (gross national income). further, it is worth looking at exactly how this "aid" is being used. american aid is typically used to further american hegemony; and in the end often does more harm than good. example: in the 70's american aid in africa was used to encourage rapid industrialization of urban centers. all this did was create catastrophic urban growth leading to ignored rural areas, homelessness, poverty, disease, and a huge rich-poor gap. further, this industrialization was always in the interest of american business and hegemony, profits and resources were siphoned out of africa, and in return africans were given slums and a host of social problems.

before we toss about numbers about whose helping out the most, its worth looking at what this "help" is really all about. more appropriate avenues of development (such as the so called "appropriate technology", alternative technology, and soft energy paths) are squelched by politically entrenched opposing advocates coming from american business and commercial sectors, with interests invested in these sectors. because of the way american economy is organized (around shareholders), there is pressure for these advocates to make the quick buck, rather than go for the sustainable development. So they move for direct transfer of technology and resources that can allow for rapid industrialization or digitization (no matter the future consequences).

Lying aye? A bit of an extreme accusation don't you think? And then after you call me a liar, your very first sentence proving I am a liar says the exact same thing I said.

As I said, the money is not enough. The money needs direction, but it seems every country throws money towards Africa without direction. My point is shouldn't another country be considered the uncaring country besides the country that has tried the most?

My statement was a reaction to someone alluding to how sorry the United States is when it comes to helping other countries. Well, the United States practically carries the load economically when it comes to helping other countries. You can divide that number by 2 multiplied by pi and call me a liar, but you cannot change that fact.

United States bashing gets old after a while. It seems every country hates our country, even though our country plays a huge role in their ability to maintain their way of life. To top it off, half of Americans hate our country and constantly want it to be more like France, or some other leftist state. Those people often do not realize that we cannot afford to live like those countries because we are too busy allocating funds to a military to protect not only our country, but other countries' ways of life. Yet as always, those countries would prefer spit on us, much like a hippie in the 70s would spit on an American troop and feel justified.

Omnirizon, your insult to my integrity will not receive anymore attention than this reply. I have very little respect for people on the internet that treat people with disrespect and name calling thanks to the anonymity of the internet. And I have very little time to play Dominions, much less time to respond to childish "your a liar" posts.

[Omnirizon]

I didn't mean to insult you, foodstamp. I guess I just wanted to start my diatribe with a bold statement to capture attention; "lying with statistics" was what came to mind. I never intended it to refer to you personally, but to the practice of using absolute monetary values to demonstrate a nation's degree of "aid" to another.

Thicken your skin a little In the liberal arts, being told you are lying with statistics is a pretty tame criticism, and par for the course. I've been told, and I've told, much much worse.

[lch]

Omnirizon said:
I didn't mean to insult you, foodstamp. I guess I just wanted to start my diatribe with a bold statement to capture attention; "lying with statistics" was what came to mind.

I don't see it as an insult. I think that the term "lying with statistics" was coined long ago and used so many times that it is just a common well-known saying. I think that some people even wrote books about it with that exact title. All that it means is that statistics can be misinterpreted and easily represented in a misleading way to imply a wrong meaning.

[capnq]

Foodstamp said:Well, the United States practically carries the load economically when it comes to helping other countries. [...] It seems every country hates our country, even though our country plays a huge role in their ability to maintain their way of life. To top it off, half of Americans hate our country and constantly want it to be more like France, or some other leftist state. Those people often do not realize that we cannot afford to live like those countries because we are too busy allocating funds to a military to protect not only our country, but other countries' ways of life.

And part of the reason our military budget is so big is that every time the military proposes to close some redundant bases as a cost-cutting measure, every politician that represents the area the base is in, domestic or foreign, protests about the loss of economic stimulus to their community.

The military even has trouble shutting down production of equipment that they don't even want any more, because the politicos won't let the program die.