Countering Master Enslave...

[MaxWilson]

Coldshard said:
So the primary, and just about only, defense against master enslave is to proactively and send spells and troops out to kill any opposing mage who can case the spell?

You've been given two other counters that don't involve killing the enemy mage:

1.) Master Enslave right back. He'll take your army (much of it), you'll take (much of) it back, along with his army (much of it). Hence, "He Who Master Enslaves Last, Master Enslaves Best."

2.) Use Anti-Magic/Army of Lead to protect your army. Will of the Fates might work here, I'm not really sure if luck helps against Enslave Mind but it might.

Or, you could use armies that aren't vulnerable to Master Enslave, e.g. hordes of undead chaff or magic beings like fairies or high-MR units.

-Max

[Coldshard]

MaxWilson said:

You've been given two other counters that don't involve killing the enemy mage:

1.) Master Enslave right back. He'll take your army (much of it), you'll take (much of) it back, along with his army (much of it). Hence, "He Who Master Enslaves Last, Master Enslaves Best."

2.) Use Anti-Magic/Army of Lead to protect your army. Will of the Fates might work here, I'm not really sure if luck helps against Enslave Mind but it might.

Or, you could use armies that aren't vulnerable to Master Enslave, e.g. hordes of undead chaff or magic beings like fairies or high-MR units.

-Max

I don't see how your response negates my 'primary, and just about only, defense against..'

Master enslaving back requires having master enslave setup. The right kind of caster, gems in place, and likely a lot of gear to push it along. There is also a chance that the caster you have set up to master enslave in return gets enslaved by the first one.. And then, of course, the enemy might be set up for multiple master enslave castings.

Is there a way to have antimagic or army of lead cast before defenders get a chance to cast spells? If not then it doesn't sound all that helpful, by the time they get put up it is already too late.

An entire army that isnt effected by it is nice, but not everyone has good access to that. Plus, those other units have their own set of limitations.. such as if the commanders controlling them get enslaved...

It is definitely a tough spell. I'm guessing it is just another bit that says the farther you get in the game the less focus there is on big armies.

[thejeff]

Well, in the classic Master Enslave contest, he who goes second has some serious issues to contend with.

First, the defender can cast AntiMagic/Army of Lead to protect both his troops and your former troops, greatly weakening the effect of your Master Enslave.

Second, since his new troops are among your remaining troops (and mages) many of your mages will be attacked or in hand-to-hand and thus less likely to cast what was ordered.
Do enslaved troops attack the round they're enslaved? I think they do.

This applies less if it takes a round or two to get communioned up to Master Enslave level. Though even a communion can do it round 1 with a Matrix and a late acting caster.

[K]

Baalz said:

That's actually not true. Several nations get access to S4 mages (Marverni, Arcoscephale, R'yleh off the top of my head)

S4 + cap + coin + crystal shield + ring of sorcery = S8

Heck, even cheaper is to drop the ring and have a second mage carrying the light of the northern star - bonus he can cast vortex of returning after the master enslave if you want. Slap an eye of the void and rune smasher onto your main caster for +4 penetration. Drop those two where you expect an enemy army to move and they'll act first so no anti-magic and no retaliation at all. Yoink!

I've found that the AI gets very twitchy when casting spells with 200+ fatigue (50/50 of not casting). That being said, it tends to mean that only high astral or communions get the job done reliably.

But, you may have had a different experience. I'd be interested in other people's experience with this aspect of high fatigue spells.

[ano]

I made a thread once about my starspawn ignoring scripted Undead Mastery. I teleported 2 starspawns on a big Ermorian army aiming for casting UM and then Vortex of Returning. It went very well in test but in practice Death Starspawn just ignored the order and they both were successfully returned home with VoR. (Acting order was correct - I checked it many times) Next turn I repeated that trick and again had 8 astral games wasted as well as a turn of two good mages. After that I decided to stop trying