Whats in a bunker?

[Marcello]

"so if I use them only use a couple to mimic real life, okay thanks"

Sorry I did not have the time to explain myself fully. Let's make an example:
OOB 17, unit 198. This is a bunker armed with a 100mm Rapira antitank gun. Here is a picture of the gun
http://svsm.org/gallery/100mm_mt-12/P1020093
In order to put such a thing in a bunker you would have to leave a very large opening for it to enter and leave. And a very large loophole for retaining a meaningful arc of fire.
While I have seen some bunkers built exactly like that they are extremely rare for several good reasons.
Tank turret bunkers are more common, as that was a common way to dispose of older tanks. For example here in Italy many obsolete tanks (Pershing etc) were used in such a fashion to create defensive strongpoint against a Warsaw pact ofensive. The soviets recycled many of their JS tanks to create strongpoints on the Kuriles and such and so on.
One would need a detailed map of such lines to be sure but I would recon that a couple of them on the typical SPMBT map would be just right.
In general the majority of "modern" bunkers (outside the rare cold war defensive line) would be either simple shelters or machineguns positions at most, built out of precast concrete and/or sandbags and such.
As for general effectiviness the germans seemed to be fond of the their Pantherturm bunkers.

[Sniper23]

nice picture, you would have to leave a big opening for it[never thought it was that big].

If tank turrets are more common I might use those more but not too many on the map,would a leopard 1a3 class as an old tank I can make into a tank turret bunker?

"And most bunkers now would be shelter or machine gun positions" So there should be more of them then any other bunker on my field.

If I put infantry inside a shelter bunker will the computer unload them?

[PlasmaKrab]

Sniper23 said:
If tank turrets are more common I might use those more but not too many on the map,would a leopard 1a3 class as an old tank I can make into a tank turret bunker?

Just take whatever old tanks you have lying around, dig a large hole, put your tank at the bottom and pour concrete over the hull!
You can pretty much put any tank (or other AFV) you want, even modern stuff even though it doesn't make sense stores-wise.

"And most bunkers now would be shelter or machine gun positions" So there should be more of them then any other bunker on my field.

You can consider your defensive line as normal troops heavily fortified. Therefore you can keep the same proportion of armor, infantry, artillery, air defense etc. (in fortified equivalent or fortification troops) as when buying for a regular defense. Replace one infantry squad/platoon with one LMG nest/ earthen bunker, infantry support with MG nests or ATGM positions, tanks with cannon bunkers...
You're free to customize, but IMO this could be a working basis for a balanced defence. Just food for thought.

If I put infantry inside a shelter bunker will the computer unload them?

Not sure at all.
Try giving the infantry formation a reaction turn, they may move more easily.

[PanzerBob]

"If I put infantry inside a shelter bunker will the computer unload them?"

In my experience NO, I've had troops in shelters on trench lines survive some heavy arty barrages and only take some suppression. Now direct hits by a deliberate assaults I never seen, and I've never run into a bunker that the computer has loaded with troops.

[Sniper23]

To plasmakrap

I maybe crazy but not that crazy to put something like a abrime in concrete .

As for defense I usually don't use much bunkers but i like your idea of trading a platoon for a bunker.

As for the reaction turn I heard about it in the game guide but what will it do?


And to PanzerBob

okay so I will try and see if anything happens and I have never seen the computer put infantry in bunkers either.

In a regular game how many shelter bunkers do you use most of the time?I don't use them but maybe I should start.

[Marek_Tucan]

Just for perspective, the biggest weapons built into bunker in Czechoslovakia (I mean really built) were 85mm guns, used during refurbishing the pre-ww2 line on borders with Austria. Forts received modified 85mm tank guns instead of pre-ww2 planned 47mm-HMG combos, when not in use, almost entire gun was drawn back into the bunker.

The biggest caliber planned for pre-WW2 line was 120mm mortar, otherwise 100mm howitzers.

[PanzerBob]

As with most defences it depends a lot on the terrain and whom I'm defending against.

Since shelter bunkers are cheap and more realistic in any numbers than armed bunkers I buy 1 or two per trench line. I tend to put Hq units under this kind of cover Zugs and Kompanies.

I also find armour fare better dug into trenches, however if you move them DON'T try driving them back in as they will be disabled more times than not.

Generally speaking these kinds defences are more effective against Russian Assaults. Also don't forget to move the "sheltered" troops into the trenches once the enemy is within rifle range.

There used to be a bug years back that allowed you between battles in a campaign to buy bunkers as part of the core force and in one campaign I had enough shelter bunkers too put all Hq Gruppe under cover in a defence. Came in handy from 43 to 45 on the Ostfront.

[Sniper23]

O.k I was wondering if it was a good idea to drive the tank back and forth,think I might use shelter bunkers against N.korea now because they use a lot of atty.

I remember that bug,once bought all the bunkers I needed for defense in my core force .

[Marcello]

"Just take whatever old tanks you have lying around, dig a large hole, put your tank at the bottom and pour concrete over the hull!
You can pretty much put any tank (or other AFV) you want, even modern stuff even though it doesn't make sense stores-wise."


"You can consider your defensive line as normal troops heavily fortified. Therefore you can keep the same proportion of armor, infantry, artillery, air defense etc. (in fortified equivalent or fortification troops) as when buying for a regular defense. Replace one infantry squad/platoon with one LMG nest/ earthen bunker, infantry support with MG nests or ATGM positions, tanks with cannon bunkers...
You're free to customize, but IMO this could be a working basis for a balanced defence. Just food for thought."

I have to disagree. Things like modern AFVs and a lot of others of the things listed above would realistically be simply "dug in" and as such best represented in the game by using the entrenching option.

[PlasmaKrab]

Marcello said:I have to disagree. Things like modern AFVs and a lot of others of the things listed above would realistically be simply "dug in" and as such best represented in the game by using the entrenching option.

Depends on the defence you have in mind. I agree that, as Sniper23 said, it would be pointless to bury Abramses and such, but all users of modern material aren't masters of mobile warfare tactics. I'm thinking, why not, in 20 or 50 years, see Abrams turret dotted along ridgelines on potential border flashpoints of, say, Egypt, Quwait, Saudi Arabia...

As to modern equipment being more dug in that actually fortified, it depends on the delay you have in mind. Troops and vehicles can be hastily dug in in a matter of hours, and get out quickly to be moved somewhere else.

If you consider a really, really fixed defense (I agree, again, that there's little point to it in modern warfare), even modern material can be worth a decent preformed concrete wall and overhead cover. As I understand it, there is little more that this to ingame MG bunkers or ATGM positions. They are permanent in game scale but could probably be emptied from all their equipment in a matter of hours.