Mod Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation

HoneyBadger · #1 July 20th, 2008, 12:56 AM

I wouldn't want all nations to be perfectly balanced against each other. It makes them too similar. But each nation should atleast be fun to play in Multiplayer, and the balancing issues should atleast be addressed, even if they sometimes get overrode by other considerations.

And if a nation is weak, then it deserves more consideration, and more time spent on it. It's a credit to Illwinter that I can't think of a single nation that everyone universally hates-they might be considered unbalanced, but each nation has it's fans. They're all interesting in their own way, and so they do deserve time and effort to update them.

quantum_mechani · #2 July 20th, 2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

HoneyBadger said:
It's a credit to Illwinter that I can't think of a single nation that everyone universally hates-they might be considered unbalanced, but each nation has it's fans.

I find it hard to imagine this would not be the case, almost regardless.

HoneyBadger · #3 July 20th, 2008, 01:23 AM

To a point, but even so, it's remarkable to me that people will shout from the very mountaintops about how poorly a given nation functions in MP, but if you then question it's thematic character, they'll defend it with the same passion. Out of 50 plus nations, you'd think that atleast one would be popularly disliked. I just haven't noticed that happening, for any nation.

Sombre · #4 July 20th, 2008, 03:37 AM

I think prior to the recent updating LA Abysia wasn't well liked and I haven't heard anyone really talking about the new stuff it got either.

HoneyBadger · #5 July 20th, 2008, 03:56 AM

That might have something to do with the new nations, though-they've kind of outshone some of the nations that were less popular to begin with-including any recent additions to them.

I never said that every nation is passionately loved, some *are* less popular than others, naturally. Just none that have stood out as particularly disliked.

Also, the Late Age is a little skewed on that, I think. Being dominated by Ermor and R'lyeh seems to cast a shadow on some of the other late ages nations, and with magic also being on the wane, it seems a bit less suited for the casual fantasy gamer, and more for the wargamer (who then must digest Ermor and R'lyeh's advantages). I for one don't play Late Age nearly as much as EA and MA, in part because of that.

Zeldor · #6 July 20th, 2008, 09:41 AM

There are very few games that allow R'lyeh and Ermor. At least R'lyeh gets banned in 99% MP games. I find LA really nice without those 2 nations, but it surely has too much blood in it.
EA seems most unbalanced of all with all that sacred powerhouses. It really limit your choices to few nations if you have any serious plans. And even if you are a genius you won't survive with weaker nations, unless you are really lucky.

Xietor · #7 July 22nd, 2008, 05:12 PM

I have looked more at the mod, but still have not had time to play a game with it.

Thoughts:

I like the scale changes. In kingmaker too many negative scales. Every single one of my neighbors have misfortune, typically with 3 order. And that is with the Worthy heroes incentive to not take misfortune.

I am not going to list all of the changes I agree with, but give feedback on those I disagree with:

Summons:

watcher-5 air gems-what is wrong with 5 air gems? You get a unit that has a patrol bonus that can uncover spies in 1 turn typically, and high precision and lightning. If you do not have mind hunt and spies are causing unrest, a watcher can be a saver-and a cheap one at that for 5 gems.

Aside from insane patrol bonus they can do some damage with very high precision and lightning.

Curse of blood-I still like the vampire at 77 blood slaves. He is immortal, has 3 d and 3 blood, and flies. Plus he summons more immortals with life drain. A pack of these can take down an sc. bloodslaves are easier to get then gems.

Plus if you summon 1 vampire, he can blood hunt and get your 77 bloodslaves back for you in a few turns. 44 seems like a steal. you can have unlimited vampires, unlike the blood royalty, so summoning one is a sure thing.

Constr item changes i disagree with:

Ax of hate-one of the best weapons in the game. Now at constr 2?

silver hauberk-one of the best mage chest pieces in the game. seemed fine at constr 4. if you are fighting a nation hitting you with numerous seeking arrows every turn, you quickly see the value of this item. low enc, good protection.

Vision foe-a ranged item that can give afflictions. why make it easier to obtain?

Without playing actual games with the entire CBM, my input is given without full working understanding of how the entire thing meshes together. And in that sense I realize my input is not as valuable as people that are playing mp games with the cbm.

But most mod authors like input on their mods, and i wanted to give mine, whether it has much in the way of value or not.