Multiplayer - which nations are being chosen?

[Hoplosternum]

The results so far

The below results tables read Nation / number of times played/ Quantum Mechani’s amalgamated nation rating. The last figure is of QM’s total points rating (adding his valuation of Early/Mid/Late/SP & Ease of MP use). This is purely for interest sake and although not created for this purpose gives some indication of how powerful the nations are relative to each other.

The EA gave the most games so far (20) and here are the scores:

Lanka - 16 - Not rated (!)
Sauromatia - 15 - 14
Niefelhiem - 13 - 23
Arco - 12 - 14
Fomoria - 11 - 16
Marverni - 11 - 11
Helhiem - 10 - 21
Mictlan - 10 - 19
Pangaea - 10 - 15
TC - 10 - 13
Hinnom - 9 - 19
Aby - 9 - 15
Tir an Og - 9 - 15
Caelum - 9 - 14
Agartha - 9 - 14
Ermor - 8 - 16
Kailasa - 8 - 14
C'tis - 8 - 13
R'lyeh - 8 - 13
Ulm - 7 - 13
Vanhiem - 6 - 18
Oceania - 5 - 17
Atlantis - 5 - 15
Yomi - 2 - 14

So Lanka is the most popular from the games I looked at, followed by Sauromatia, then Niefel. Yomi was spectacularly unpopular. Nor did Vanheim or many of the Water nations prove popular picks. Apart from R’lyeh the water nations were unpopular in other eras too.

For the MA nations there were less games but it was still a popular age with 15 games

Vanhiem - 11 - 20
Abysia - 11 - 15
Ulm - 10 - 13
TC - 10 - 13
R'lyeh - 9 - 17
Pangaea - 9 - 15
Bandar Log - 9 - 15
Ermor - 8 - 22
Pythium - 8 - 17
Arco - 7 - 18
Eriu - 7 - 15
Mackaka - 7 - 14
Caelum - 7 - 14
C'tis - 7 - 12
Agartha - 7 - 10
Jotunhiem - 6 - 19
Marignon - 6 - 15
Mictlan - 6 - 15
Shinuyama - 5 - 16
Oceania - 4 - 18
Atlantis - 4 - 13
Ashod - 3 - 16
Man - 3 - 14

Perhaps no surprise that Vanheim was the joint winner in the popularity stakes but Abysia being picked so often surprised me. Ulm and TC were both surprisingly popular as neither are exactly powerhouses although TC’s magic variety makes them interesting to play.

Ignoring the new nation, Man and none R’lyeh water nations were unpopular. Yomi’s MA stable mate Shinuyama was also fairly unpopular.

In the LA there were far fewer games. Only 7 made the cut. And of these most had a lot of nations playing so it is hard to tell how popular the choices actually were. Also Ermor and R’lyeh are low due to being excluded from 2 of the 7.

So for completeness I have included the figures for LA but little can be drawn from them.

Utgard - 6 - 20
Mictlan - 6 - 17
C'tis - 6 - 14
Abysia - 6 - 13
Bogarus - 6 - 13
Pangaea - 5 - 18
Marignon - 5 - 17
TC - 5 - 17
Patala - 5 - 12
Ulm - 5 - 11
Jomon - 5 - 10
Ermor - 4 - 24
Agartha - 4 - 18
Arco - 4 - 17
Caelum - 4 - 16
Man - 4 - 15
Atlantis - 4 - 12
R'lyeh - 3 - 22
Pythium - 3 - 14
Midgard - 2 - 19
Gath - 1 - 17

[Edited for formatting]

[JimMorrison]

Very interesting stuff! Some of the results surprise me a little, including the fact that 5 of 7 LA games allowed Ermor and R'lyeh.

[Kristoffer O]

Interesting!

I wondered about this just a few days ago, and then you make this list

Jim, likely they were started before the discussion on power levels started in full earnest.

[Kristoffer O]

I believe that it is likely that a nation gets additional players when it gets a remake, minor or major. People want to try new stuff out.

Marverni, Ulm, TC have all received alterations after the MP games started. As have MA Mictlan with 6 players, which was more than I thought it would have.

Yomi is possibly the one nation I am most bothered by myself. I played it a bit in Kingmaker to get some inspiration. I have some Ideas, but they require JK's attention. Apart from that I'm a bit bothered by their appearence. I dislike their looks. Not individually as much as a bunch of units.

[Herode]

Interesting. I'm surprised to see Hinnom scoring so high since the nation is a very recent addition. I suppose they'll end in the top 5 within some months.

As for Yomi, I am also surprised by their impopularity. I found this nation very fun, although rather difficult to play. And I'm eagerly curious to hear more about your ideas for the Oni Kings, KO

[Omnirizon]

i wanna give yomi a whirl too. i love their concept and they actually look like a lot of fun. plus i love playing underplayed nations, and finding ways to make them work. consequently, i hate playing the "superpowers", and really don't like it when people choose them in MP games, unless they are real new (i've noticed, though, that most players are this way, vets tend to shy from the 'strong' nations, and newer players often jump on them).

i think the main thing that turns people away from yomi is the fragility of their units combined with their high price; their all demons with low protection and often not good enough MR to really stand up to a lot of banishing or demon smiting. yomi just loses too easily in the wars of attrition.

I think what would make them tons more attractive is giving their main researcher +1 RP and all demon troops +1 to +2 MR. Units are a little more robust to banish/smite demon and players have the option of taking a drain scale to help them even more. As is, they are too easy to banish, and their researchers are so terrible that a drain scale is suicide.

[Aezeal]

KO

I'm playing yomi in a new MP game, it's a newb game and I was about to play Hinnom there but llamabeast pointed out that that might not be entirely fair... well I've only gotten weak games so far so I don't really think I'm a good player but anyway I decided to go for a nation I didn't know and which looked weaker than Hinnom... so I got Yomi.

Yomi.. what can I say, personally I think they really suck.. their troops are weakish (and this is WITH CBM) and their mages not that good for EA. The Dai-oni is nice.. but then again very much GC, and probably not as good a SC as other with the same price and no other very good battle mage.

I also think that for a demon nation there isn't much incentive to buy demon troops. that should be changed. The ghost thing is nice but the ghosts are so weak that once they are ghosts most troops die anyway (seems like the etherealness doesn't really help them at all.

Personally I do like the background and my 2 advices would be
1. improve the oni
suggestions on this
- give the flame throwers more range and more ammo so you can actually USE them as archers and when in close as combat troops
- a bit better precision wouldn't be bad either
- AOE damage is another option but probably to much
- +1 MR for oni
2. strengthen the ghosts (of course this also buffs the oni in total so balance is an issue there)
- maybe more HP as ghost
- give them flying and low morale so they break fast but the troops can flee ASAP and live?
- random ghosts with once in a while a very strong one?
3.
maybe buff the mage a bit with a random
4.
cheaper dai oni OR lower enc OR magic weapon

Of course not all changes... that would maybe even overpower them (though not likely) but a selection

new pics are never a bad thing
a whole new troop isn't bad either, I'm not much into oni, but a chinese dragon oni would be nice

[MaxWilson]

Omnirizon said:
i think the main thing that turns people away from yomi is the fragility of their units combined with their high price... I think what would make them tons more attractive is giving their main researcher +1 RP and all demon troops +1 to +2 MR. Units are a little more robust to banish/smite demon and players have the option of taking a drain scale to help them even more. As is, they are too easy to banish, and their researchers are so terrible that a drain scale is suicide.

My house rules give Yomi troops furs (average Prot is then ~10, but it adds 1 to enc) and decreasing morale of the spirit form so they run away to fight another day. Also, slightly improved Precision to help their aimed attacks (because immortal demons have time to practice). Seems to work pretty well.

-- Improved Onis.
-- Better precision, wears furs, lower morale on spirit form.
#selectmonster 1275
#mor 6
#prec 11
#end
#selectmonster 1274
#prec 11
#armor "Furs"
#end

#selectmonster 1273
#mor 6
#prec 11
#end
#selectmonster 1272
#prec 11
#armor "Furs"
#end

#selectmonster 1261
#mor 6
#prec 11
#end
#selectmonster 1260
#prec 11
#armor "Furs"
#end

#selectmonster 1265
#mor 6
#prec 11
#end
#selectmonster 1264
#prec 11
#armor "Furs"
#end

#selectmonster 1267
#mor 6
#prec 11
#end
#selectmonster 1266
#prec 11
#armor "Furs"
#end

#selectmonster 1317
#mor 6
#prec 11
#end
#selectmonster 1316
#prec 11
#end

-Max