New Board - Props and Slops

[Mindi]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

I wasn't trying to be unhelpful Mindi. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I understand this must be a pretty rotten day for you.

No I wouldn't say that, in some ways it's a great day for Shrapnel, but I'm not going to tolerate a lot of nit picking considering what we've went through and what all is working RIGHT. Many other sites that do conversions like this take many more days or even weeks to be back up again. We did this in less than 3 days with 3 to 4 people at a time working on it! This is a great accomplishment but that also means we're exhausted and are still working on it so patience and kindness go a long way.

If it is possible (and of course I don't know that it is), there is a good deal of room for rearrangement. The avatar pictures don't need to be so big (the old size was fine), and the graphs could be placed alongside all the text in the top right rather than below it. Finally there is a bit of space underneath the main header which just contains the post symbol, generally a bit of paper. This could be incorporated somewhere in the main header. All those measures together would make a big difference.

As someone else said in the last couple of weeks, we have one of the smallest allowed avatar sizes of any board, so the fact that it's 32 pixels higher now is not a big amount of space IMO. As for putting other things across the top of the postbit instead of under the right stats, there are some issues with that as user IDs are different in length for different users which means that space is variable and will probably look a mess if too much stuff is put up there. It may even push out the side of the table throwing the whole template off. As far as the line with the post symbo and post time, if you look on the right hand side of that same line there are other important symbols and functionality, including the box for moderators to click to use moderation for that post. I don't know if that can even be changed in vb or if it's that big of a deal to try to change all the templates to do so.

With regard to the bookmarks - yes, sorry, that is my personal opinion, and I only repeated it here to open it to debate. Sorry if that was an aggravating thing to do. I still feel that they would be used just as often if placed below the Quick Reply box - I'm certainly not suggesting they be removed! - and that would generally add to the ease of use of the site.

You should be lucky I put them at the bottom of a thread and not the top.

After ending up doing a lot of technical support over the last year or two with my Dom3 server, I merely venture to suggest you may be being overoptimistic. It's not a big deal though, if people aren't sure they can just post a question on the board and they will quickly find help. So disregard that point.

Please tell me what is so hard. You click on the txt, it opens a box and asks you were you want to save it on your computer. Once saved, you open it....again, I'm not seeing what's so hard. Especially coming from anyone who has uploaded or downloaded a file before. It's a basic computer skill that anyone learns after a short time online.

[llamabeast]

It would be nice if it would be possible to at least retain the ability to edit the OP's of each thread, (This would also solve the MP issue mentioned before.

This is a very good idea.

[Endoperez]

It seems that the forum update mostly improves the moderator side of things. I was expecting something that helped on the user side, not something that totally changed the look. This is made worse by the fact that the new look is horrible, especially the current shrapnel games from page, and especially the bland, BLUE cd in the middle. It's like a hole in the middle of a page, not an eye-catcher, and a blank cd certainly doesn't give a good image of your games. Other problems I have with the current Shrapnel Games frontpage. I understand it's still under construction (link to free games doesn't work), but IMO that's just more reason to point these out now when people are still working on it.

- The cursive titles It's what we do and Buy it! Buy it! are horrible. Please replace them. Defining your publishing as something you do feels bland, and the buy it! line seems way too direct, even desperate. IMO, even something like what we do best and order today! would be a vast improvement. I'd also like to see It amuses us and take it! take it! (blog and free games, respectively) changed. I don't think your blog (from which I've only read discussions about the niche game economy) is supposed to be amusing, and Take it! again goes way above my comfort level.

- The title images (Our games, Our blog, Our forums etc) should link to the page in question.

- I really hope the images under "Our games" are temporary. They make it look like all your games were sold either in dvd cases or in boxes, but at least Dominions 3 isn't.

- Ordering your games alphabetically by category doesn't work. The current way starts from BOARD games, and ENDS in STRATEGY and WAR. This doesn't work for "publisher of permier war and strategy games".

Being able to edit first posts of threads is important, but preferably there should be some way to set any post as always-editable, because there are mods (e.g. Conceptual Balance for Dom3) that have several different versions that are made downloadable as different attachments. When a version changes, all of these should be edited.
Perhaps making all posts with attachments always editable?


Color scheme of the new forum is bland. The old brown gave the forum most of its feeling, IMO. Please bring it back, if possible.

Graphic ads on the side of the forum are really distracting. Text ads on the side are fine, and image ads on top and on bottom are tolerable, but breaking the color scheme with off-color ad is really bad. If you need an image ad on the sidebar, please put it to the top of the bar, to where the main menu is currently located.


The new forum software doesn't jump to the first unread post of a thread when the thread is opened normally. You have to click the tiny arrow-icon next to its name. This is counter-intuitive. Most people don't want to read the whole thread again every time even a single post is added to it, and the first page could still be opened by selecting the '1' that's after the title.


As said before, the poster's name on top of each post takes huge amount of space. I really liked the old system, but I understand you aren't changing back to it. Still, could some vertical space be saved by moving some of the info to the center of the name/avatar line? Perhaps the new activity indicator bars? Also, it might be better to limit the avatar size so that large avatar won't strech that space any further. Changing it now, before new, bigger avatars are uploaded, would be better.


The size of text in the reply box is tiny when compared to the actual text size. This might be due to my personal settings, but I haven't been able to find an option for changing text size in the new software. Is there any way to change the size of the text in text field, or the the size of the text on viewn posts?

EDIT:
As some other people, I was shocked when I first saw the new forum. Color scheme and look were a big part in that. I even felt like this wasn't the same forum at all, and that I might leave it just for that, and the small things yet to be ironed out.

[Mindi]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

It seems that the forum update mostly improves the moderator side of things.

I won't address the site design as that wasn't my portion of the change over but I will say although there is a great addition to moderation there is also a great amount of new features for users. Read my "PLEASE READ" stickies, I posted some of the new features in there although I only touched on a portion of the new features. Also additional features will be coming.

Being able to edit first posts of threads is important, but preferably there should be some way to set any post as always-editable, because there are mods (e.g. Conceptual Balance for Dom3) that have several different versions that are made downloadable as different attachments. When a version changes, all of these should be edited.
Perhaps making all posts with attachments always editable?

Asked and answered as to why we don't want all posts to be always-editable. We've had a good suggestion about allow OPs to edite first posts, I'm going to investigate that option.

As said before, the poster's name on top of each post takes huge amount of space. I really liked the old system, but I understand you aren't changing back to it. Still, could some vertical space be saved by moving some of the info to the center of the name/avatar line? Perhaps the new activity indicator bars? Also, it might be better to limit the avatar size so that large avatar won't strech that space any further. Changing it now, before new, bigger avatars are uploaded, would be better.

Umm, we've posted for 3 weeks that the new avatar size is 80x80m and that no one CAN upload bigger avatars, so this is not an issue. As to why things are on the right or left and not in the middle, I think I answered the reasoning for that in an earlier post.

The size of text in the reply box is tiny when compared to the actual text size. This might be due to my personal settings, but I haven't been able to find an option for changing text size in the new software. Is there any way to change the size of the text in text field, or the the size of the text on viewn posts?

Let me check and see if something was changed. This is probably caused by existing users not being switched to the standard editor. I can probably do a mass update this evening to do this, but you can do this yourself by going into your usercp, edit options and near the bottom where it says editor, switch from basic to standard or expanded.

[Ninave]

Originally Posted by Mindi

Umm, we've posted for 3 weeks that the new avatar size is 80x80m and that no one CAN upload bigger avatars, so this is not an issue.

There is this thin blue box around the avatar that is of the maximum height (80) and avatar-width (Mozilla 3.0.1). It messes up the avatars that have transparent backgounds to blend in to forum and I think it looks silly with normal avatars as well. I would really like to see it gone (even tough my small pink blob seems quite funny bumping in to lines and turning back again and again).

Also the animated clapping hands... Urgh. Still there.

[lch]

Default font size in non-WYSIWYG edit boxes is better now!

[Tim Brooks]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

...not something that totally changed the look. This is made worse by the fact that the new look is horrible, especially the current shrapnel games from page, and especially the bland, BLUE cd in the middle. The cursive titles It's what we do and Buy it! Buy it! are horrible. Defining your publishing as something you do feels bland, and the buy it! line seems way too direct, even desperate.I don't think your blog is supposed to be amusing, and Take it! again goes way above my comfort level. I really hope the images under "Our games" are temporary. They make it look like all your games were sold either in dvd cases or in boxes, but at least Dominions 3 isn't. Ordering your games alphabetically by category doesn't work. The current way starts from BOARD games, and ENDS in STRATEGY and WAR. This doesn't work for "publisher of permier war and strategy games". Color scheme of the new forum is bland. The old brown gave the forum most of its feeling, IMO. Graphic ads on the side of the forum are really distracting. As said before, the poster's name on top of each post takes huge amount of space. As some other people, I was shocked when I first saw the new forum. Color scheme and look were a big part in that. I even felt like this wasn't the same forum at all, and that I might leave it just for that, and the small things yet to be ironed out.

Tell us what you 'really' think, Edoperez.

Thanks Mindi, for all of your hard work! You are greatly appreciated, here at Shrapnel, if nowhere else.

[BadCompany]

Originally Posted by Tim Brooks

Thanks Mindi, for all of your hard work! You are greatly appreciated, here at Shrapnel, if nowhere else.

Ditto.

[JimMorrison]

Personally I'm kind of a stickler for not having things "remember me", I don't like leaving my passwords laying around - even on Firefox.

Anyway Mindi, we know (or we SHOULD know) that you all went through a lot this weekend, and I for one also appreciate all the hard work and attention to detail that was paid. It's obvious that you all want these forums to be attractive AND functional. To not only entice random surfers, but to also properly display the communities that spring up around these games, and the high level of support they tend to receive from their developers.

The problem - and I do think it's ironic that there are so many comments from Dominions players, seeing as it is the highest selling title from Shrapnel, as well as claiming the most active community - is that we are being asked to give up a LOT of functionality and capability, for a lot of control and marketing (for Shrapnel).

I don't think that anyone meant to put anything in a threatening way, but there is wisdom in looking at this from more than a police sort of view. I see so many replies with "this was out of hand", "we don't want that", "people would do this", that remind me of someone cutting off their foot to stop from stubbing their toes.

All leading up to this conversion, many of us were a bit excited, because we kept being told the new software would "allow us to do so much". Currently all I see is that the software allows YOU to do so much - but all the users of the forums get, in trade for all that we are giving up, is slightly larger avatars.

I believe your team is highly underestimating the importance of the Edit issue. I believe you also badly underestimated the PM issue. 300 is still a bit cramped for a really active player, and I think it's a bit silly that the suggested answer is manually archiving what could potentially be 10-15 messages a day.

I'm personally in no hurry to go anywhere else - I like it here. But rather than viewing things as threatening, please just have a little break and then look at these issues again. It's not that people are itching for a reason to leave, are ungrateful, or are otherwise unhappy with Shrapnel. But the Dominions community is very active, and very prolific. It's in everyone's best interests if you at Shrapnel continue to provide room for us to do our thing, and if we keep our thrumming hive of activity here, posting links and drawing attention. Just to reiterate - we WANT to stay here, so please reconsider how inhospitable the new forum functions, for our needs. I won't even go into the look of it, I think if it works great, people will tend to get over the rest.

<3

[HoneyBadger]

Ok, I'll second (or fifth) three things. First of all: Quick Reply is so tiny that I can barely even type in it. Can this be user-modified? It's very disorienting and hard on my eyes.

Secondly-the dark blue, aquamarine, white coloring is inherantly cold (ice=blue/white/aquamarine) and offputting. The orange-brown/parchment color was welcoming and warm. As it is, although the dark blue itself looks cool enough, the greyish aqua that occupies most of the body of the forum page looks dull and dreary, like dirty water. Very officelike, very corporate memo, not very gamer-friendly.

Third: By eliminating editing after half an hour, you've effectively killed four mod nations I was in the process of developing, atleast for a year or two. Please give us the ability to edit atleast the first post. It will save so many problems and so much confusion-not to mention so many posts.

Also, please keep the users in mind. A strong forum community is one of the best things Dominions3 has going for it. I'm sure there are a lot of other Shrapnel games out there that also benefit from it. It's not a threat to say that if you make bad choices about the forum, and the way it looks and works, that it's going to drive people away and make the ones who are here less active and less efficient. That's just the reality of the world we live in.

I don't hate the new board like cancer, but please don't "fix" what wasn't broken already, just in an effort to look shiny and new.