Long lost tactical manual

[shilka77]

Draw is about the best I can get out of an eastern unit now days against the AI. I would not survive 5 turns in this new game against a PC in a PVP this is an entirely new game I need to train, train and train to get in shape with these new units. Sure manoeuvre is the answer only now I will have to get 500 meters from my target vs 1000 in older versions.

Now that may not seem like a big difference for any western oriented player that fights in desert terrain against some Iraqi modifications from An Najaf armour shop but you can be very sure I will notice the difference. I think this is not an issue about east and west, I think those whom promotes this kind of positive special treatment seldom puts themselves in a T55 and roams out in suicide attacks against the green giant and his Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles. I think they seldom read anything but Janes Defence Magazine (a great magazine) and I think in general not many knows much about the post Gulf War re-armament that continues all the way to our days as new warheads for rocket-propelled launchers reached the market years ago, someone mention Israel vs Saudi Arabia that is a great what IF scenario.

The last armed conflict with Hezbollah (2006) however proved the new RPG rounds deadliness against the Merkava Mk 4 really was at short ranges. They cracked them opened like rotten sardine canisters, it didn’t help the IDF that Hezbollah also had gotten their hands on the Kornet ATGM system either. A lot of things is probably very hard to simulate even with a game engine such as this one I understand that fully, but you do not have to cut the head of the rooster and watch him run around headless bleeding up to make a game balanced. Now that is whining and takes me to the third part of my very long answer.

The prices –

Now Abram Tanks cost a lot and so does an Assad Babyl in comparison the Assad Babyl is inferior to the Abram Tank for more reasons then one. Someone said use the terrain, kick your enemy in the sides and from the behind. I would do that if an Assad Babyl came with a mole attachment to its nose and I could dig myself around or to the side of an Abram tank.

This is the worst example of the above so I picked it. Within urban terrain I can make that Assad Babyl roam and do terrible damage to Abrams no question about that, heck I could even take one out with an old T-55 Enigma with a rear attack from 100 meters (x2 hexes) not kill it but cripple it enough to send in my Infantry to hunt down the fleeing crew.

Problem with the game is that when you meet the AI it is often meeting engagements (Generated Campaigns) and the terrain originally offered is not nice to the player as the AI always get high grounds or other good defensive positions it seems, (vision advantages) now comes this great option Redraw new default map (change visibility) and you can also move around V-hexes to your own advantage that is great, only if doing so the game often turns into a shooting contest with me trying to re-arm while enemy APCs often wheeled APCs in massive flods draws my tanks fire.

I noticed something else when I started this new game. More bonus points here – You can fix the tanks and APCs so they do not engage these light targets but concentrates their vital AP killing rounds against those whom really needs them for you to win as in modified Pattons or M84K or heavily upgraded cold-war medium tanks that always comes with a thermal sight! God I hate that when it happens but now. This function was great. Good work!

What I really could come down to wine about is the RPGs yes you can have hundreds of RPGs but it wont help you a bit if they just bounce off a tank or APC. Now RPG engagements are not supposed to be from the front ever. It is considered suicide in most armies I believe.

They have been tuned down or taken out of commission from crucial units that irl was equipped with the new warheads. If I could have one wish for filled give the RPG-7V back to units that had them in version 3.0 as that made them so much more realistic in urban warfare as the tiny RPG-16s is not much to put up against a western APC at all and even less a western tank, North Korea is the worst nation OOB in the entire WINSPMBT I believe.

They still run around with vintage 60s RPG-7s That is madness. If so we would be in Pyongyang now celebrating our overwhelming victory over Kim Jong Ill. If you want challenge play against AI with North Korea then you will have to fight for every bit of dirt your larva’s enters I can assure you that. A bit more balance and this game will be fine.

http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-charli...ho-series.html

[Koh]

Originally Posted by shilka77

If you want challenge play against AI with North Korea then you will have to fight for every bit of dirt your larva’s enters I can assure you that. A bit more balance and this game will be fine.

Oh I'm such a sucker for challenges. Here's how it went


North Korea defend against US Army assault
June 2010

Terrain features:

For the purpose of this battle report, up is north, down is south.

A secondary road in south
A paved road in north
Lots of hills
A stream running north-south near the V-hexes
A small village in the north
Long firing ranges in the south
Shorter ones in the north

I pick a reinforced infantry battalion as my defending force. I have two light infantry companies and one red guards company at my disposal. They are all lightly armed with no squad level AT weapons. Only a few RPG-7 teams provide the companies with any form of AT weaponry. The light infantry companies have organic infantry SAM support in the form of three igla launchers. The companies are supported by heavy machine guns.

I also have a mortar company formed of two 120mm mortar platoons, each with three tubes. My indirect fire capabilitie are further bolstered by a 180mm artillery battery meant primarily for counterbattery fires. I have three artillery observer teams at my disposal.

My AA capabilities are reinforced by two Igla SAM platoons, each with 3 launchers, as well as 2 radar-equipped Type 88K self propelled AA guns.

I have been reinforced with two engineer platoons for entrenching and bridge demolishing purposes. My anti tank forces have been bolstered by two platoons of B-11 recoilles rifles and one platoon of Fagot anti tank guided missiles. There are also three concrete bunkers with AT guns as well as three entenched anti tank guns at my disposal. Finally, a lone T-2002 tank has been sent to act in anti-tank roles.

The local air force unit has been kind enough to allocate two Mig-29s for close air support missions.


I deploy my forces behind slopes and hills to enable shorter firing ranges. I deploy AT teams into firing positions that will allow them to fire at the sides and the rears of enemy tanks. The Fagot teams have instructions to not engage the enemy unless given the order to do so. I build several trench lines but leave them unoccupied. Their main purpose is to operate as anti tank ditches as well as secondary positions for my units retreating from their first positions. I also build a few minefields in areas with little AT coverage to stop any possible flanking attempts. My pre-planned artillery targets are in areas where I first expect to see enemy units and in places where I expect them to stop to engage my units.

Turn 3
2 M1A2 Abrams tanks stopped by a bunker firing at them in the south. The tanks are destroyed by PGM launches by the Mig-29s.

Turn 4
2x A-10s pefrorming bombing runs. Both destroyed by Igla SAMs. 2x F-16s bomb one of my bunkers. Minor casualties amongs the infantry. Enemy Abrams tanks tries to engage the bunker bombed by the F-16s but fails to destroy it.

Turn 5
I bail out the crew from the bunker as the main gun was destroyed by the Abrams. Enemy infantry spotted in the north. Their advance is halted by my infantry fortified in houses. I plot a mortar fire mission against them. Enemy M2A3 Bradleys detected in the south along with more M1A2 Abrams. A PGM launch from a Mig-29 destroys one M1A2 SEP Abrams.

Turn 6
M2A3 Bradley is engaged by a Fagot team but the missile does not hit. The same Bradley is destroyed by a bunker. I remember that I have sappers meant to destroy the two bridges crossing the streams and start pounding them with satchels. Enemy bombards my positions with HIMARS and artillery. No casualties. Two F-16s perform air strikes. One of them is downed by Igla SAMs. One Igla team is lost in the air strikes. M1A2 Abrams engages the Fagot team and the bunker that destroyed the Bradley. Two enemy M1A2s are stopped in front of a sapper squad due to a bunker firing at them.

Turn 7
Sappers destroy one of the M1A2s with flamethrower. The other is sent into retreat. I retreat the sapper squad into the trenches waiting behind them. The bridges are still standing despite continuous satchel bombardment. Enemy infantry in the north pinned down by HMG fire. Bunker firing at M2A3 Bradley, Bradley destroyed. Mortar company fire disperses the enemy attack in the north.

Turn 8

I'm moving up some 107mm B11 RCLs to take rear shots against an M1A2 Abrams that has stopped to fire at my bunkers. One F-16 air strike, the plane is destroyed by Igla SAMs. A bunker is destroyed by an M1A2. The Fagot team is taking heavy fire. More enemy infantry killed in the north.

Turn 9

I order the Fagot team to retreat to safety. More enemy infantry repelled in the north. B11s take shots at M1A2. More enemies killed by mortar fire in the north.

Turn 10

HMG fire is pinning down the enemy in the north. B11s are driven away by M1A2. Enemy infantry spotted advancing along the southern road. Two enemy squads destroyed by mortar fire in the north.

Turn 11

Enemy infantry spotted in the center. It is driven away by my own infantry stationed there. Enemy infantry advancing in the south is repelled by HMG fire. No more living enemies visible in the north. Our own forces there suffered no casualties.

Turn 12

More enemy units pouring into the center. They are repelled by HMG fire. I'm calling down mortar fire to aid my troops there. One enemy M1A2 turns its rear against a Fagot team to engagy my infantry. The Fagot team scores a catastrophic kill on the tank.

Turn 13

Due to the failure of our CB assets to locate enemy artillery units, I plan a bombardment with the 180mm battery against two enemy M1A2s that are engaging my infantry. The enemy infantry in the center is driven away by my mortar fire.

Turn 14

I engage the two M1A2s in the south with infantry to keep them still until the 180s hit them. One infantry squad is destroyed by a M1A2. Enemy infantry in the center is suffering heavy casualties. Enemy infantry is again spotted in the north and they are repelled by HMG fire. The enemy forces in the center are forced into retreat by a mortar barrage.

Turn 15

The enemy tanks in the south are hit by the 180s and are buttoned. One of them has it's rear turned against a Fagot team, but the missile does not hit. A B11 team destroys one of the tanks with a hit in the rear. I send my T-2002 to hunt for the other while I also engage it with infantry units nearby.

Turn 16

The enemy M1A2 is hit by a Svir launched by the T-2002, but its armor holds. The T-2002 is destroyed by the enemy tank. I plot more 180mm fire against it. Enemy MMG team engages my infantry in the north. My troops return fire.

Turn 17

I'm ordering some mortar fire against enemy infantry in the south. There's a platoon sized element moving along the road but it is heavily raked by HMG fire. Enemy infantry in the north attacks but they are repelled by HMG and rifle fire. Mortar fire disperses enemy troops in the south.

Turn 18
The pinned down M1A2 is assaulted and destroyed by a light infantry team. No operational enemy vehicles in sight. I'm concentrating all the artillery fire on the remaining enemy infantry. I'm diverting half of the mortar fire against enemy troops in the north.

Turn 19

Enemy infantry in the centre destroyed by my infantry. Northenr enemy infantry is disrupted by HMG fire. One of my light infantry teams there is in the risk of being overran by the enemy. Mortar fire causes serious casualties upon the enemies in the north, while the 180s destroy enemies in the centre.

Turn 20

My infantry platoon launches a counterattack in the north following the mortar barrage and leaves the enemy infantry destroyed.

Turn 21

A Javelin team that had snuck near my defenders in the south manages to kill a few soldiers before being destroyed by rifle fire.

Turn 22

One enemy squad spotted in the centre.

Turn 23

My infantry exchanges shots with the enemy squad in the center.

Turn 24

Enemy squad in the center is destroyed by HMG and rifle fire.

Turn 25

Battle ends early due to nearly complete destruction of the opposing force.

Casualties:
North Korea
52 men
1 T-2002 tank
2 Bunkers

United States
192 men
2 M2A3 Bradleys
7 M1A2 tanks
2 A-10s
2 F-16s

Score
N. Korea 11256
U.S.Army 652

Decisive Victory



Slightly off-topic, but I just wanted to demonstrate that no, the game is in my opinion not at all imbalanced. You just need to know how to use your forces. 90 % of my units were untouched by the enemy and none of them reached my minefields or anti-tank ditches. Three enemy tanks were destroyed by PGMs while the rest of them were destroyed by the hopelessly outdated B11s, Fagots, flamethrowers, seriously underpowered bunker main guns or hand grenades. If you place all your AT assets in front of the enemy, you can pretty much be sure that they'll do you no good. You need to place them in front of him and on both of his sides. That way no matter where he faces, he'll still be getting it up the rear.

- Koh

[Marek_Tucan]

Originally Posted by shilka77

The last armed conflict with Hezbollah (2006) however proved the new RPG rounds deadliness against the Merkava Mk 4 really was at short ranges. They cracked them opened like rotten sardine canisters, it didn’t help the IDF that Hezbollah also had gotten their hands on the Kornet ATGM system either.

Just a quick question, how many Merk IV's were destroyed and by what means? How many were penetrated? To my knowledge most of casaulties were commanders and loaders hit by shrapnel from exploding warheads while out of the hatches and there were very few penetrations, let alone total kills - for all Merkava variants, not just IV's.

They still run around with vintage 60s RPG-7s That is madness.

But they mostly do. Many armies do. I bet even Russians themselves still have hefty loads of PG-7VM grenades and use them. Czech army uses 60's level RPG's (technology, not actual date of manufacture) for sure and many countries still use 60's-level M72LAW. Given the state North Korea is in, I seriously doubt they have too much funds for massive rearming with new RPG's and run around with old but proven PG-7VM equivalents.

As for hardness of fighting against Abrams in desert, well, real world sucks. Advancing with inferior tanks against enemy with superior targeting, spotting and most likely crew experience is never cheap - it can be costly even with superior equipment if your enemy knows what is he doing, have a look at Israeli defense on Golans in 1973, they were able to pull out a night battle with only old passive IR binoculars for tank commanders, against tanks with "full" active IR night vision.
So... If you are to assault US Army in 1991 with T-72 in desert, you¨re screwed. That¨s the way it is, all you can do is reduce losses - by any means neccessary. If you smoke densely enough, ti would be severely limited. If you shell long enough, enemy is gonna be in bad shape.
and outside flat desert, use cover. I was able to pull off balanced (numerically) running skirmishes between T-34/85's and T-55's, and between baseline T-72's and T-55A's vs. Leopard 2A4. It was not cheap but enemy lost more than me.