OT: US Pres election

[Azselendor]

There's a reason why there are so many sheep references in politics and religion.

A large part of this election is a final verdict on Washington itself. Obama's rise to fame wasn't for any reason other than many liberals and moderates out-right rejecting the last 8 years of washington DC politics. A lot of people are fed up, tired, hurting, and broke as a result of the incompetence in DC. They see several hundred entrenched career politicians and lobbiest and pundits doing nothing along with media outlets from Fox News and CNN acting more like tabloids than news outlets.

But they also see problems rising up let right and center and nothing being done to fix it except piles of money being chucked at it in the hopes we can bury it with debt.

So when someone new steps up and starts talking to them about things that matter, that someone is suddenly heard.



See, I've concluded American political affiliations really don't matter at this point. We all want someone to hear our plight and help us before we have to start wearing Hoover Hats once again.

And thanks to Bush-O-Nomics, it won't matter who wins the presidency as the next president MUST raise taxes.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Azselendor

But they also see problems rising up let right and center and nothing being done to fix it except piles of money being chucked at it in the hopes we can bury it with debt.

Because what happens when we are low on money? The "Federal Reserve" prints more, and "loans" it to us. Where do they get it? It's paper. Who are they? The heads of the largest banks in the world.

Eventually we will owe the Federal Reserve so much money, that they could declare the nation bankrupt, and attempt to seize the "hard assets" of the nation, in order to recoup their "losses" (of "paper" that they "loaned" us). We already gave them Fort Knox to "hold onto".

[Azselendor]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Because what happens when we are low on money? The "Federal Reserve" prints more, and "loans" it to us. Where do they get it? It's paper. Who are they? The heads of the largest banks in the world.

Eventually we will owe the Federal Reserve so much money, that they could declare the nation bankrupt, and attempt to seize the "hard assets" of the nation, in order to recoup their "losses" (of "paper" that they "loaned" us). We already gave them Fort Knox to "hold onto".

I don't subscribe to world bank conspiracies. Our current economic crisis is a direct result of the federal reserve authorizing banks to issue money that it didn't have (credit means new money printed) without securing a means to recoup that money. High gas prices and rising prices in general are a direct result of the inflation this has created.

Now one of the things that really irked me was McCain saying the gov't would buy up all the bad mortgages at the loan's value, then sell it at current market prices. In many cases the gov't will be dumping this property at a loss.

And mind you, the government would then hold all public lands in the mean time..

Welcome to the Soviet America.

[lch]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Because what happens when we are low on money? The "Federal Reserve" prints more, and "loans" it to us. Where do they get it? It's paper. Who are they? The heads of the largest banks in the world.

Eventually we will owe the Federal Reserve so much money, that they could declare the nation bankrupt, and attempt to seize the "hard assets" of the nation, in order to recoup their "losses" (of "paper" that they "loaned" us). We already gave them Fort Knox to "hold onto".

I don't think it can be summarized to something so easy as that. Money is actually not as easy as most people think, since as you already understand it has no real value in itself, it only has a value attributed to it. How and why money works, and what to make of it, that's a science on itself I'd say.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by lch

I don't think it can be summarized to something so easy as that. Money is actually not as easy as most people think, since as you already understand it has no real value in itself, it only has a value attributed to it. How and why money works, and what to make of it, that's a science on itself I'd say.

Until the creation of the Federal Reserve, all US currency was backed and valued with hard assets - gold and silver. The US government was the only body who could print more currency, and I would agree that I am mystified by what process they determined the value of gold and silver, and how much money could circulate based on that.

However, what I am not so confused about, is the creation of the Federal Reserve. It is a private organization, that was handed the right and responsibility of printing all US currency. They also have the right and responsibility to alter interest rates, and other economic factors - with the express purpose of NOT allowing this sort of thing to happen. But you know what? 16 years after the creation of the Fed, in 1929, we entered the darkest financial times in our nation's history - the precise situation that the creation of the Fed was supposed to preclude.

I am no conspiracy theorist. But, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to guess that if some people knew there was about to be a horrible economic downturn, they could liquify their assets, and gobble up enormous amounts of property when the market crashed.

I am not saying that happened - all I am saying is that with humanity's penchant for greed and thirst for power, it is entirely unreasonable and irresponsible to give this sort of power to the richest people in the world, without 100% transparency and oversight. But, they meet in private, and do not release any of their discussions to the public - only their conclusions and economic manipulations.

Also, I may not fully understand all of the ins and outs of our current corporate financial juggernaut - but I do know that we will always be better off with currency being based on something real and tangible, rather than an arbitrary currency that is manipulated by private hands, behind closed doors.


Possibly a $trillion bailout occurring right now. How many people have actually read the text of the bailout plan? How many people have any idea what it will actually accomplish - WHERE all of that money will end up? You see, high finance is a lot like the shell game. Once things start moving around, and things are rapidly changing hands, and there's a $trillion being tossed around - who is going to account for where that money ultimately goes?

If we can unload $13billion in unmarked, untraceable US currency on a forklift in Iraq and then lose track of it, then I would have to sadly say that we are in a position to make some disgustingly wealthy people even more money right now - just because they can slide those shells around the table so deftly.

[lch]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Until the creation of the Federal Reserve, all US currency was backed and valued with hard assets - gold and silver.

And horse-drawn carriages were still a common sight on the streets. Just saying. Pssst, when I was talking about "no real value", that included things like gold and silver, too. Or pebbles or shells or whatever else you use for your monetary system.

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

However, what I am not so confused about, is the creation of the Federal Reserve. It is a private organization, that was handed the right and responsibility of printing all US currency. They also have the right and responsibility to alter interest rates, and other economic factors - with the express purpose of NOT allowing this sort of thing to happen. But you know what? 16 years after the creation of the Fed, in 1929, we entered the darkest financial times in our nation's history - the precise situation that the creation of the Fed was supposed to preclude.

Which only shows the complexity of the system, to me. I have confidence that the people that print money are doing their job correctly of making some sense out of this and provide some working system for us. Which I considered extremely difficult after thinking about it for a while. Nowadays, all the money you have is just some data blip on some bank server. Not that it's to be expected, but ever considered what it would mean and what would happen if some disaster would take out all of these records? Only regarding monetary values, not any kind of chaos that might start, I mean. You seem to be under the impression that money is something that is real and can just be counted.