OT: US President (US Dom Players only)

[otthegreat]

I'm curious about what some of our friends outside of the US (i.e other dominions players) think about the two party system. I agree with what seems to be the general opinion here that it needs some work.

One thing I like about Vermont is that campaigns run on a very limited budget so third parties are better represented. In fact the republican candidate for senate last election spent much more money and ran the first real attack adds we've seen in the state. I was very happy when the whole scheme backfired and the independent won handily (admittedly no democrat was running).

[Ylvali]

Originally Posted by otthegreat

I'm curious about what some of our friends outside of the US (i.e other dominions players) think about the two party system. I agree with what seems to be the general opinion here that it needs some work.

Well I´m from Sweden and here many of us are quite concerned about your election as well as the finanical crisis. Regarding your political system I can only speak for myself (and to me it is horrendous) but fact is that when referring to the US as a democracy many friends of mine and other swedes put "democracy" in quotes.

For us it is simply very hard to swallow a two party system with such abysmal variation between the two alternatives as "democratic".

Especially when a majority of the votes don´t always mean victory.

I guess I´d vote for Obama if I was american, but I´m afraid that even with him we will have to continue sending humanitarian aid to, and receive refugees from, areas ravaged by US invasions and "pre-emptive strikes" (FYI one small swedish town accepts more iraqi refugees than the entire US)

Our image of the US will remain that of an unpredictable bully to be feared and watched closely. A country so powerful that you have to sign deals with it even knowing they will be systematically broken. Our goverment will remain silent in fear of repression, and our political right will seize the opportunity of the crisis to push for privatization, tax-cuts and economic deregulation (the shock doctrine on export)

It would take a LOT of work to change that image. But I do hope you´ll try, for the sake of this planet.

[Bwaha]

WASHINGTON -- A Republican congressman from Georgia said Monday he fears that President-elect Obama will establish a Gestapo-like security force to impose a Marxist or fascist dictatorship.

"It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he's the one who proposed this national security force," Rep. Paul Broun said of Obama in an interview Monday with The Associated Press. "I'm just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may -- may not, I hope not -- but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism."

Broun cited a July speech by Obama that has circulated on the Internet in which the then-Democratic presidential candidate called for a civilian force to take some of the national security burden off the military.

"That's exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it's exactly what the Soviet Union did," Broun said. "When he's proposing to have a national security force that's answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he's showing me signs of being Marxist."

Obama's comments about a national security force came during a speech in Colorado about building a new civil service corps. Among other things, he called for expanding the nation's foreign service and doubling the size of the Peace Corps "to renew our diplomacy."

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," Obama said in July. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Broun said he also believes Obama likely will move to ban gun ownership if he does build a national police force.

Obama has said he respects the Second Amendment right to bear arms and favors "common sense" gun laws. Gun rights advocates interpret that as meaning he'll at least enact curbs on ownership of assault weapons and concealed weapons. As an Illinois state lawmaker, Obama supported a ban on semiautomatic weapons and tighter restrictions on firearms generally.

"We can't be lulled into complacency," Broun said. "You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I'm not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I'm saying is there is the potential."

Obama's transition office did not respond immediately to Broun's remarks.
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You see why there's such concern about where our country is going.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Bwaha

You see why there's such concern about where our country is going.

Yeah, I'd be concerned about people like that in Congress, too.

Also, as has been mentioned earlier (Godwin's law), this guy just shot himself in the foot by Reductio ad Hitlerum. And so did you.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by lch

Yeah, I'd be concerned about people like that in Congress, too.

Also, as has been mentioned earlier (Godwin's law), this guy just shot himself in the foot by Reductio ad Hitlerum. And so did you.

How dare you beat me to the post. I demand a duel, select your fish!

[Bwaha]

I don't think that Obama is hitler, I am very worried about our future. I think that we have to be watchful and informed. I try to get my information from many sources. Sometimes they are right and sometimes wrong. But at least I make an effort to stay informed. The parallels of where we are now is frightening similar to the hyperinflation of the mark. And the response is the same, Print more money. Create a national but separate "police" force. Wiki the Wiermar Republic.
I'm just scared that if we don't watch and restrain the government it will turn against us. Being informed is the one and only way to stop tyrants. I'm sorry if I offended you but I think we have to discuss the potental and guard against it.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Bwaha

I don't think that Obama is hitler, I am very worried about our future. I think that we have to be watchful and informed. I try to get my information from many sources. Sometimes they are right and sometimes wrong. But at least I make an effort to stay informed. The parallels of where we are now is frightening similar to the hyperinflation of the mark. And the response is the same, Print more money. Create a national but separate "police" force. Wiki the Wiermar Republic.

It runs in parallel because there was a stock market crash, too. The things that are done to combat hyperinflation are the same. But what brought down the Weimar Republic was that the chancellor could abuse power too easily and subvert the system by emergency decrees, in times of war for example.

Originally Posted by Bwaha

I'm just scared that if we don't watch and restrain the government it will turn against us. Being informed is the one and only way to stop tyrants. I'm sorry if I offended you but I think we have to discuss the potental and guard against it.

Where have you been seven years ago?

[Bwaha]

My fears are based on the Patriot Act. When you are charged under it you lose all your rights. They can lock you up and there is no appeal. No council. No Habeas Corpus. Yes I blame bush for this travesty. We need to rid ourselves of this law. It concentrates power and removes our right of redress. Look man, I'm not trying to tick you off, I'm trying to talk about a serous problem. Our civil liberties are being taken away. And as far as Obama is concerned, we should ask him to rid us of this law. We should petition congress as well.

[JimMorrison]

I agree 100%, Bwaha.

I do hope, that if Obama does something about this atrocious blight on American justice, that even the most hard-hearted of conservatives will start to see the possibilities that the future holds.....

Seriously, I have seen nothing that makes me think that Obama himself would abuse the "rights" given to the establishment through the Patriot Act. Would that I had remembered to reference it in the fascism sub-argument earlier.....

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by lch

It runs in parallel because there was a stock market crash, too. The things that are done to combat hyperinflation are the same. But what brought down the Weimar Republic was that the chancellor could abuse power too easily and subvert the system by emergency decrees, in times of war for example.

Where have you been seven years ago?

That is *far* too simplistic an argument on what down the Weimar republic. Massive unemployment, war debts, disaffected youth, hyperinflation, and a belief that the country had been betrayed.
Looking from the german perspective, at the time of the armistice it was not nearly so obvious that germany had lost - and so what was a smart move by the germans military .. turned against them politically as rabble rousers drummed up a distrust of the govt.